I have a fancy USA-made dehumidifer that has apparently failed after 3 years. I recently replaced the humidity control switch (under warranty), but it’s still suffering from issues.
The front panel is held in place using Torx-head screws.
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Here are some things I discovered, while trying to troubleshoot and fix the darned thing in the wee hours of the morning
Where Did I Put My Torx Screwdrivers?
Water was dripping out of the machine where it wasn’t supposed to. I found my nutdrivers relatively quickly, tightening down a lock-nut that probably shouldn’t have been a little loose. By “relatively quickly” I mean I tried to use the nutdriver ends of a multi-bit screwdriver before realizing the handle kept running into obstacles. The too-small nutdriver tip could reach, the too-large one couldn’t, and it took my grabbing an older Craftsman nutdriver set to realize I needed an intermediate 11/32″ size anyway.
But before all that, I had to access the panel, which required removing 8 Torx screws.
Where are my Torx screwdrivers or nicely organized row of 1″ bits?
I had a 3pc Torx screwdriver set in the garage, but the largest size was too small. I dug out two different multi-bit screwdrivers that were already in the basement, but their largest Torx sizes were also too small.
I have a PB Swiss Torx set I bought from Amazon a full 10 years ago (and for $15!), but I stored it away a few years ago due to disuse.
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When I swapped out the humidity control switch earlier, I dug out a bit ratchet and precision screwdriver bit, and that worked in a pinch. I didn’t have patience for that improvisation, not at 4am.
I know where my mini drivers are, but they’re way too small.
I didn’t want to start digging around my office/electronics space for bits, because the kids were sleeping.
I ended up using ball-end L-shaped Torx keys that I keep in the basement, and then grabbed a Milwaukee Shockwave 2″ T25 bit that I used with a too-long bit driver handle.
I have a stockpile of plenty of power bits and insert bits in the basement, most of them impact-rated. Using a 2″ power bit with an extra long length bit holder isn’t glamorous, but it worked.
What I’m Ordering
Tool deficiency? Gotta fix this.
My multi-bit screwdrivers all tend to have Torx tips that are on the small side. So, I just ordered this Tekton 6-in-1 hard-handled Torx screwdriver, with T20, T25, T27, and T30 tips. I will likely put it in a maintenance drawer in the basement, and that’s where it’ll live so that I don’t have to embarrass myself again by not being able to find the tool I need when I need it. Or, maybe I’ll wall-mount a loop to give it a place in the utility room.
This driver is priced at $10 via Amazon and is made in the USA. Plus, I’ve been meaning to find an excuse to try out Tekton’s new hard handle design.
Of course I am now able to dig out my Wiha multi-bit screwdriver in no time, and it has T20, T25, and T30 bit tips. But, I also use that driver for household tasks and it sometimes goes missing.
With this new driver, the hard handle should allow for easier wipe-downs compared to my Wiha’s cushion-gripped handle.
Having a dedicated larger-size multi-bit Torx driver will be useful. I bet it will also eventually be used for things like saw blade changes. Maybe?
At $10, this fills a need but without breaking the bank. I will also try to dig out my hard-handled PB Swiss screwdriver set, which will surely smell foul after being stored in a closed box for so long.
Buy Now: Tekton 6-in-1 Torx Driver via Amazon
Unrelated: Weird Sizing – T20 Tool in a T25 Fastener?
This is the part the confused me, and not because it was the middle of the night when I set to troubleshooting all this.
I removed 8 screws using an L-shaped Torx T20 key. The short end was straight-cut and I used it to break the fasteners free, and the long end is ball-shaped. It felt a little clunky, but it worked, and I thought the uneven feel was due to the ball-end tip shape.
For reinstallation, and because I kept installing temporary screws to hold things in place while I powered it up for testing, it was then that I put together an improvised screwdriver-shaped pairing between a 2″ power bit and extra long driver.
T25 fit best.
So, a T20 bit fit in the fasteners a little loosely and still managed to turn them, but T25 provided a more secure fit. What?
I’m going to have to be more careful in the future. I work with hex fasteners a lot more than Torx, in regard to hand tool-related tasks at least, and also of course Phillips and square. With those types of fasteners, a screwdriver either fits or it doesn’t. You can sometimes make different Phillips sizes work, but generally you know which size you’re supposed to use.
It seems that the Torx fasteners in this machine were perhaps tapered? But they don’t really look like it.
You can bet I’m going to see if I can drive in T25 wood screws with T20 bits today, to see if the slight sizing matchup is more common than I was previously aware of.
It was upon close inspection that I noticed the T20 bit didn’t quite completely fill the fastener socket entirely, not the way that a T25 tip does, but it engaged enough to where I was able to use the T20 tool for fastener removal.
How bizarre, maybe this is a fluke?
A T20 bit tip shouldn’t have been able to successfully drive a T25 fastener, right?
Did I stumble across the rare example where the wrong-sized tool can turn a fastener?
fred
Maybe they are Torx-Align socket screws meant to be driven with a tapered torx-align driver.
You may also know that there are Torx-Plus screw and drivers that have a slightly different shape meant to accommodate higher torque.
Stuart
This was sheet metal to threaded sheet metal, and so definitely not a high-torque application. Didn’t look like Torx plus, just plain Jane Torx.
fred
Unlike Torx-Plus, Torx-Align have the same pattern as plain-Jane Torx – only a tapered socket – so a parallel-tipped driver will not fit as well and a T-25 torx-align may be closer to T-20 at the base of the socket screw recess
HectorP
I have the Picquic True-Torx – fantastic alternative to the 6-in one (has 7 torx bits 10, 15, 20, 25, 27, 30, 40).
Mister Physics
Second this! Also they make an accessory Torx bit set with the security feature. Picquic bits are very high quality.
I keep both metric and SAE hex drivers as well as the Torx set in my toolbox. Their mini driver has Torx T6 and T8 if I recall.
Eric
This is exactly the thing I was looking for. I just bought a precision screwdriver set with T2 through T8 bits. I was looking for more normal sizes of T10 and higher.
Andrew McConnell
I’ve found on my BMW motorcycle that I have to be careful that I don’t accidentally use a T20 on a T25. It “works” but its not right, and will deform the bolt at high torque.
TheTool
That’s exactly what it is. It’s like turning any fastener with a lower size bit or screwdriver. It may work but you’ll strip the fastener and damage either the fastener or the screwdriver (maybe both).
James C
I’ve found the next size down driver bit often works in a pinch, but not a good practice as it will damage the screw / bit eventually.
Related, anybody else use Torx bits on hex screws if you can’t find the right driver? That also works in a pinch.
Jared
Similar: I’ve hammered a torx bit into a stripped out hex head screw to use it as an extractor.
Chris
I hate when I come across torx fasteners that almost fall between sizes. That’s when stuff starts stripping out and the swearing starts.
Tom
Enderes makes a nice Torx 4 in 1. I keep it around for exactly this sort of issue.
Toolfreak
This why I buy those cheapo screwdriver bit sets that come with a variety of bits, a driver handle and bit adapter. Keep it in a drawer or otherwise handy when torx or odd bits are needed to grab without going through the toolbox or boxes of tools.
Those torx bits for the 4-in-1 or 6-in-1 screwdrivers are also great, but sometimes you really need a regular torx screwdriver if the screw is recessed, which is often the case with torx.
Gordon
My Wera Advent calendar set has been great for leaving in the house for that sort of thing. It’s also a great way to justify to the wife why I spend $60 on an advent calendar.
I’ve been tempted to pick up some of those Tekton multi bit screwdrivers so I expect a full review!
Tyler
Just out of curiosity, what dehumidifier did you buy?
Stuart
Santa Fe Advance 2, being replaced with Advance 90 (same machine new name).
Small imported model wasn’t working well, I bought a new one, everything was recalled that year, so I splurged for the Santa Fe.
Their customer service has been great. I was given the choice of having local company repair it with free parts but paid labor, send it back for free repairs but delayed lead time, or replace at a discount.
In simpler times and off-season I’d send back for repairs.
We had a refrigerator sealed system repair attempt in the past and it didn’t work out well. So rather than go through all that hassle, and with delayed factory repair, replacement seemed the best option.
There are a couple of other brands I considered originally, no guarantee they wouldn’t have suffered similar issues.
DRT
Interesting. I have gone through a staggering number of imported dehumidifiers. About two years is typical life, and then the refrigerant leaks out. I have taken several dead dehumidifiers apart, and even though different brand names, the compressor is always the same Chinese unit. I think that is the weak point. Lowes has wised up on the extended warranty and no longer offers 3 year warranty. How long did the Santa Fe run before acting up ?
J
I had a very similar situation just occur. Have a santafe force dehumidifier from 8/1/17 worked great until 5/28/2020. Noticed it wasn’t providing warm dry air from the output when I fired it up this year. Called therma-stor and went through troubleshooting steps with rep and they felt it needed to be sent to for repair. I believe the full coverage warranty period is 2 years (inc shipping) and 5 years limited on other parts. Being out of warranty this could have cost hundreds to ship and repair (350 to 600 I’m guessing). Thera-stor graciously coverd the unit repair including round trip shipping. Took about 4 weeks inc shipping both ways (evaporator coil repair and recharge). While this was out for repair jumped on a Costco sale danby 50pt unut for 149 and it’s worked fine (runs much longer for the the same results). Bad sign if dehumidifiers average 3 years.
Charles F
that’s disappointing, I’d expected better from Santa Fe, though I haven’t owned one.
I buy the cheap chinese ones from Costco. Once a year they replace them for free. I think that’s fair, as they are selling such cheap junk…
J
Disappointing indeed, was trying to buy for longevity and quality (1399) may have to explore the disposable route.
Just a Medic
Not to brag, but I routinely use T20 bits on T25 screws. Also T15 bits on T20 screws, T25 bits on T30 screws, and T30 bits on T40 screws. Seems like every one of my Torx bit sets is missing a size or two. Life’s too short to hunt for an exact match every time. I thought interchangeable Torx sizes were common knowledge.
Blocky
It’s a feature. Been known to use a small slotted on Torx to open crates coming from Europe.
Chris G
I’m not sure if the same phenomenon exists between all sizes but I similarly used a T25 where a T30 was the correct size. I’ve since taught try a size that I know if too large and work my way down
Wayne R.
For a guy who likely has more tools than almost anyone else, there’s a consistent “I can’t find it” thread in here.
Maybe instead of looking for that one tool, you might have better success in assembling a fix-most-everything kit?
It’s way simpler to grab a (always too heavy) tool kit than always running around onesey-twosey.
When I work with techs who say, “I’ll be right back, gotta go get pliers,” I lose a lot of respect for them.
It’s quite satisfying to build & use such kits, too.
NoahG
I had this problem once so i addressed it with a Picquic that has seven bits T10 thru T40.
The multi bit screwdrivers I keep handy usually have 10/15 bits in them.
And my work EDC, a Gerber Centerdrive, has a 10, 20 & 25 in the bit sheath, as those seem most common in my life.
NoahG
Oops meant to post this as a reply to the main thread.
blocky
I second this and have 3 such kits. The one I sling around the home weighs <20lbs. Keep it in an open top 14" husky bag with a shoulder strap so I can carry other items and slim pockets that keep the handtools straight up and down for a quick grab.
For bits, I keep a Wera BC-30 in the outside pocket, for ease of access. The bit assortment is my own with no redundancy.
Hardware lives in a large compartment organizer, never in the bottom of the bag.
It's all about mise en place. My space is always in flux, but those kits are tight.
blocky
Side benefits:
-Can take a comprehensive tool-out to a job and not spend a moment’s thought whether I have what I need back home or at the shop.
-Helps justify that I bought 3-4 variations of a tool.
-Keeps me working with those alternate tool-outs, rather than always grabbing my favorites, which can provide unexpected insights and appreciation for different details of their design.
TheTool
“For a guy who likely has more tools than almost anyone else, there’s a consistent “I can’t find it” thread in here.
Maybe instead of looking for that one tool, you might have better success in assembling a fix-most-everything kit?”
He should’ve used a bit-holder with a security bit set. There’s no excuse to this blogpost which is just ranting.
Stuart
You’re right, I should rent out an industrial space and set up a proper shop where I’m not tripping over things that don’t have any permanent home.
I’ve been working towards a complete shop cleanup and clearout, but everything has to go somewhere. I donated most tool storage units in hopes of a consolidated solution, made things worse.
In addition to all of my tools, and in addition to everything I purchased for near-future content creation, there are samples I requested, samples I’m still working with for long-term testing, and a lot of things that just showed up unannounced.
You need maybe 25% clear space to clean and organize the 75% of occupied space. Takes enormous amounts of time when free space percentage shrinks, worse during pandemic quarantine with everyone home.
I have been working towards clean and clear work and storage spaces, but it’ll take a while longer unless I’m willing to take a full two weeks or so when I’m doing nothing but that.
Having a go-to tool kit is a great idea, but there will always be more tools needed for specific tasks. My go-to doesn’t include Torx screwdrivers in this size. Despite this, it still won’t be in my primary household kit.
Having too many tools seems nice, until you have to find something from two moves and 8-12 years ago.
TheTool
“My go-to doesn’t include Torx screwdrivers in this size. Despite this, it still won’t be in my primary household kit.”
Why not? Torx is common and part of most security bit sets or even most bit sets. T20/T25 is common and might even be in security Torx.
it just seems like it comes down to organization and being prepared.
Benjamin Franklin: “By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.”
Stuart
Preparation involves anticipated needs, which often requires precedent.
As mentioned, organization is an ongoing effort.
My hand bit sets were inaccessible due to the time, and improvising with a T25 power bit and manual bit holder wasn’t entirely comfortable.
So I ordered an inexpensive tool to be dedicated to future needs, and its space on the wall means I won’t have to commit to giving it placement in my tool box.
TheTool
I don’t see how that’s improvising. It doesn’t’ matter what you do or how you try to do it if you aren’t prepared. There’s a reason why a ratcheting bit holder is a must for any toolbox.
Robert
I thought that image was the Mont Blanc logo and wondered why Stuart is reviewing expensive pens! ?
fred
Checking out platinum-iridium tipped pen nibs might just be up Stuart’s (Material Science PhD) alley.??
Charles Stopczynski
I learned an automotive torx lesson a long time ago. When a 100 piece set of “security fasteners” became available. I jumped at the chance. Since then I have used a number of them. Northern Tool has one such assortment for $9.99, half of what I paid 15 years ago.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578287_200578287
Coach James
If someone doesn’t have a Northern Tool close by, Harbor Freight sells the same set for the same price. Only difference is the case color.
https://harborfreight.com/security-bit-set-with-case-100-pc-68457.html
Matt F
I find the number of similarly sized drivers in Torx really annoying. It is really a design defect in the specification in my opinion. Sure you it optimizes torque possible for a specific fastener, but it has probably resulted in a lot of stripped heads in the real world.
JSBson
T27 is common in automotive.
Husky-Torx-Folding-Key-Set-8-Piece-HFTK8PC T9, T10, T15, T20, T25, T27, T30, T40 or similar works fine for emergencies and cheep enough to keep one in the glove box and kitchen tool drawer..
S
Just as an aside – I’m always amazed at “fred’s” vast knowledge. I’m not sure exactly what kind of businesses he had, but he’s a treasure-trove of tool knowledge.
Fred – I almost always look for your posts! Glad you hang around here. I often learn something.
S.
Steve
Hi Stuart,
Have you tried the torx version Wera makes called hold function?
i believe it has a slight taper to it, that makes it hold the screw similarly to how securely a robertson tip holds the screw. It is wonderful when you are installing equipment in server racks because the screws dont fall off when you are supporting the device with your other hand. they are excellent.
fred
Many manufacturers call the “slightly tapered” design that you mention : “Torx Align”
TheTool
Why not use a magnetic bit-holder which eliminates the need to buy a holding function Torx?
Ewoud
Yes it’s the only issue I have with Torx bits/screwdrivers and fasteners. I changed all my screw buying to tx (Torx) because I hate the stripping of Philips and Pozidrive fasteners. Pozidrive is very popular here in Europe. I’ve stripped some cheap torx bits using one size to small earlier one. Now I work my way down as others have mentioned.
Not being able to find the driver I need has been the justification to have multiple sets. My fav being my Wera Tool Check Plus that is always in my bag. First time I brought it on holiday it was frowned upon but I proved very convenient a day later.. to complement it I have a wonderful Wiha System 6 in my small drill/location kit the longer shafts are a good complementary function next to the Wera set..
Meanwhile working on making a set of most popular tipped screwdrivers hanging on my tools all.. including a couple of Irazola made Bahco hexes thanks to you Stuart!
Ewoud
Toolwall.. not Tools all.. typo sorry
Matt J.
I’ve found out the hard way that T20 is a workable fit for T25 fasteners. Somehow, I had a wall-mounted organizer bin that I had accidentally mixed two brands of fasteners in. They were both something like #8 or #9 2″ screws, but apparently one brand had used T20 and the other T25. Like a fool, I hadn’t labeled the bin with the fastener drive type and so I test fit a screw to my bits and set up my impact driver with a T20 bit. Couldn’t figure out why I kept having slippage on some when they were almost flush until I realized that they were T25s and it was just tight enough to turn but once the impact started really going it would strip the edges of the fastener engagement enough to let it slip. Lesson(s) learned (some good, some bad): label your bins with the driver type, don’t mix them without checking, and, in a pinch, a T20 works to drive a T25, but it’s not a good idea, especially with an impact tool.
Emilio Gonzalez
If you ever strip out a hex or Torx fastener, just drill out the center a bit and the driver will engage better for subsequent removal.
Nathan
Sort of on the line to what Fred pointed out. I think alot of torx screws are now stamped to be more torx-align featured.
Meanwhile if you also look at the torx specs for the sizes you will see that with tollerance they get rather close. So it is often the case that when broached a screw will nearly always have some taper in the head end.
Like someone else said when in doubt start high and work down. I do this also – really good screws of reasonable size (t-25 and higher) will even have the number stamped on there.
Flotsam
I get frustrated with the bits sometimes. I have them but i also keep a few of the Torx screwdrivers as well as a Pozidriv #2 screwdriver & also some dedicated JIS sizes.
Kevin
For low torque situations a #1 (green) Robertson/square driver can work on a #2 (red) screw. But only for low torque like a machine screw with clean threads. A #2 Robertson can work with #3 screws.
Adam Gillen
One of the best tool accessory purchases I’ve ever made was going to Home Depot and buying one each of the 2″, 2 to a pack, GRK Torx bits. They’re $5 a pack so you’re gonna drop $30 for T10/15/20/25/30/40, but the steel is hard and they don’t wear out. The best part though? THEY ARE COLOR COORDINATED. No more grabbing the wrong bit!
Nathan
Oh and have any of you run across the Hex/torx screws. Hex outer rim with a torx in the middle. such as you could use either. I have to say I like that idea but it’s a has to be a costly screw.
Rick C
Just get a Bondhus dedicated torx screwdriver set T9-T40 and get the job done. You can buy singles up to T60. A set of 3/8 drive T20 & larger bit sockets is a nice addition.
fm2176
I have a Blackview BV9700 rugged phone that failed the river test (I forgot it was in my pocket, then when I remember I figured why not test its water resistance). Naturally, when I went to disassemble it, I couldn’t find anything smaller than a T7, so a trip to Home Depot for some Husky miniature drivers was in order. I wanted to use the warranty, but the phone was missing a screw and most of the others were loose (likely what compromised its seal).
Also, I’ve used torx and hex drivers interchangeably for low-torque fasteners. While not optimal, it beats tracking down the proper tool.
Bill
I was just reminded of this post today, when I removed the guard from my Milwaukee Cut Off Tool, 2522-20. The guard is held in place by four T8 screws that are accessible after the cutting wheel and flanges are removed. The fitment of a T8 bit, in each of the screws, was so sloppy that I tried a T9 and it would not work at all. After further inspection of the screw heads with a magnifying glass, the eyes are getting old, to confirm I was really dealing with Torx screws, I went ahead and used my Wiha T8 bit to remove the four screws. After some close quarters work that required the guard removal, I used a full face shield and safety glasses, I replaced the guard. It was in the replacement that I encountered some slippage of the Torx bit.
So I reread this post to recall the particulars, and it looks like I will now order some of the Torx-Align bits referred to by Fred, in hopes that they will fill the gaps in situations like this.
Adabhael
I came looking at this older thread because yesterday I had to scrounge around to find a torx driver to remove some fasteners while cleaning my chainsaw, and came looking for recommendation on a good t-handle to buy as a dedicated tool. Ironically, I ran into similar problems: the biggest bit I had stored with my ratchet was t25, which worked but upon reflection felt a little sloppy. Reading through this, I realized that some of those screws were pretty gunked up with dust and oil, and all that got me thinking maybe I used the wrong size. I just checked the fit in a clean screw and, of course, they are actually t27 torx. I see from the ISO 10664 specifications that the point-to-point distance in these “Hexalobular internal driving features” are only 0.56mm different from T25 to T27 (hence the cossover) but the torque specification is over 40% higher! Half a millimeter! Looking at all this again also reminded me that of course the saw came with a simple bent-rod torx wrench, which I had neatly stored with my sharpening files. I would still like a nicer one, and I see KC tool has a Wiha chainsaw tool kit, but that’s likely overkill for me. Based on the look, I bet Wiha manufactures the Stihl branded ones I see on ebay, and I suspect Wiha or Park might be good options, but welcome other suggestions. I guess I also need to look into this Tox-align situation as well.
Vards Uzvards
If you don’t need an assortment of Torx drivers for everyday use, maybe a T-handle holder (like the Felo one here https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E62NIC/), plus a bit set (e.g. IRWIN IWAF1333 – https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ABC29UQ/ – provides seven sizes, up to T27, AFAIR) would work?
If you also need T30 – this Bosch set has one too, looks like.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZS6FY42/