Ton asked a question in Ben’s Knipex pliers deal post from yesterday, and it’s a doozy of a question. I know I’ve said that before with other reader questions, but this one’s tough.
I can’t decide between the Knipex or NWS, linesman and long nose pliers, which would you get?
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Someone asked me something similar last year, in response to my NWS YouTube video, about which is better – Knipex, NWS, or Stanley FatMax. I said that: Knipex and NWS are on-par with each other, with both brands’ pliers being better than Stanley FatMax pliers. In terms of Knipex vs. NWS, I tend to favor NWS a little better, but there are a few Knipex styles that NWS doesn’t offer, and NWS styles that Knipex doesn’t offer. I have a mix of both.
Ton’s question asks specifically about long nose and linesman’s side-cutting pliers. I have both Knipex and NWS pliers at my disposal, and luckily I found two similarly-sized long nose pliers to do an apples vs. apples comparison with.
See Also: Long Nose Pliers Roundup
The Apples
Knipex: 6-1/4″ angled chain nose pliers with cutter and comfort grip (model 25 25 160). I paid ~$20 for these from Amazon a while back, and they currently retail for $30-45.
NWS: ~6-3/4″ (170 mm) chain nose pliers with wire cutter, comfort grip, and Titan finish (model 140-69-170). German Hand Tools sent these over for evaluation, and currently sells them for $22.
Which Do I Like Better?
Both tools are about the same size. They’re both comfortable to use. I’ve never had any problems with Knipex or NWS pliers, or at least nothing comes to mind. I haven’t really used the cutters on anything but the occasional soft copper wire.
The Knipex handles appear to be spread wider, but they’re not. At least not by eyeball. Maybe they do spread a hair wider. The NWS comfort grips are softer, flatter, and wider, but this might not be true for other sizes.
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I stood at the tool box, holding both pliers in my hands for a good couple of minutes, switching them back and forth and then handling other pliers sizes. In my use, I never thought about which might be better. In a quick A vs. B comparison as far as comfort is concerned, there’s no clear winner!
And so I’m stumped. I cannot really say whether one brand is better than the other, at least in terms of long nose and linesman’s pliers. I don’t have Knipex linesman’s pliers, but I do have NWS combination pliers, which are almost the same.
Honestly, it’s going to come down to personal preference. The Knipex handles are slightly curvier, the NWS pliers have larger and flatter surfaces to squeeze with your palms. Both have hardened cutters – Knipex says theirs are hardened to 61 HRC, NWS doesn’t provide a particular value that I could quickly find.
It’s hard to recommend one brand over the other when there’s nothing wrong with either!
If I had to pick, I’d go with NWS, as I think I find their grips to be a little bit more comfortable. I’d get them from German Hand Tools, Lee Valley, or Amazon under Irwin relabeling, although the Irwin pliers are pricier.
For ~6″ and 8″ long nose pliers, as well as side-cutting combination pliers that are akin to linesman’s pliers, you’ll often spend less choosing NWS over Knipex. That makes the decision a little easier to make. Knipex tools are easier to find, but NWS pliers have become more available and better stocked.
Keep in mind that this is for apples vs. apples comparisons, but that won’t always be the case. For instance, NWS Fantastico compound leverage cutters, or Knipex TwinForce? NWS, every time.
If you’ve used both pliers, would you agree that this is a very tough comparison to make? It’s like asking: which is better, Channellock or Klein? (Actually, I might just do that tomorrow.) I have bought several Channellock and Klein pliers, including both brands’ linesman’s pliers. I prefer Channellock’s, but know that many if not most electricians swear by Klein’s.
Ton
Thanks for the detailed comparison. I think I’ll go with NWS to give them a try. I already own a few Knipex tools like the pliers wrench, cobra pliers, and cobolt cutter. NWS will give it some variety.
Stuart
If you can wait until tomorrow, another Lee Valley free shipping promo on $40+ orders to contiguous USA kicks into effect.
Ton
I’ve been looking at the Irwin rebrand linesman with crimper. But I cant seem to find it in NWS form. Any idea?
Stuart
That might be specially made for Irwin. NWS’s comfort-gripped combination pliers also don’t have the below-pivot grooved gripping area either. If it’s not on http://shop.nws-tools.de/en, then chances are it doesn’t exist under NWS branding.
Ton
Are the irwin handles as nice as the NWS ones?
Stuart
They’re different. I have two samples and no idea where they are at the moment. Irwin says they’re an improvement, and I didn’t notice anything negative during the first uses after they came in.
If the style you want is exclusive to Irwin, you’ve got nothing to lose in trying them out. If you don’t like them, or they’re uncomfortable, you should be able to return them without too much trouble. If the return isn’t due to a defect, Amazon will deduct a modest shipping fee from the refund.
chris gatten
you do realize the irwin ones that are made in germany are nws pliers
glenn
For what its worth, I have some 30+ year old Knipex pliers and they are still in excellent shape. Their durability has never been in question.
That said my boss recently bought a set of NWS vde pliers and I have to say they are really well made and very nice to use. In fact, good enough to sway me, I will be buying a set of these in the near future,
Pic here; please note this is in Australia.
http://www.bunnings.com.au/nws-2-piece-vde-plier-set-_p6010468
Seb
Ok i ll go to nws over here (France) for a couple of reasons.
1. There is not a real edge in term of comfort or performance between both
2. Both are rather easy to find, with nws having a slight edge because they are usually stocked in more styles where i shop (where knipex is also stocked but in less styles).
3. pricewise nws are always cheaper compared to a similar knipex
ktash
I just looked at Lee Valley for NWS, which has free shipping starting today. Unfortunately, they only sell pliers in sets. I was looking for the fantastico pliers and they only come as part of a contractors set. Good deals for the sets, but I already have most of what they contain.
Stuart
They sell them individually as well. They have sets, and groupings of like-styled pliers for easier navigation.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71973&cat=1,43456,43400,71969
alan
I liked the handles on the NWS. However, on both my straight and angled NN, there was too huge of a gap, even at the tip that does not compare to either the Knipex or Klein. The place where I bought my NWS ended up going over his inventory and cherry-picking replacements that were ~tighter~ in tolerance.
Better, but still not as tight as Knipex
fred
I like both company’s offerings. I think that NWS Fantastico and Pistol Grip style pliers are really nice and I’m glad that I have the 4 NWS pliers that I’ve purchased (043F-49-210, 1096-49-200, 138-49-200 and 168A-320). That said , I have many more Knipex pliers and love their 86-03 series plier wrenches – so much so that I have a full set (6 from 125 mm to 400mm) plus an insulated one (86-07-250). So while I’m happy that both companies sell their products here in the US – if I had to pick – it would be Knipex.
Josh
I have never used Knipex before, but I just got 3 pairs of NWS the other day and they are awesome. The grips are really comfortable and the quality is great. I got them through German Hand Tools. Thanks for turning me on to these Stuart.
Eric
Stuart,
First off, you run the best tool blog on the net. Honest, transparent, and excellent technical depth. Thank you for sticking with it!
I am almost ready to make the NWS plunge, but want your opinion of Channellock cross hatching functionality benefits vs NWS grip ergonomics. I use the pliers for both household projects and model trains.
Also, do you have a favorite pair of micro/very fine pliers? I took your advice on Xuron and really enjoyed using the spruce cutters to build a blast furnace model for the layout. I also have a pair of Swanstrom light diagonal cutters which are fantastic. I have a bunch of wiring and soldering coming up which. I want the proper precision pliers for.
Thanks again, Stuart!
Cheers,
Eric
Stuart
Thanks for the kind words!
Cross-hatching can be useful for certain tasks, such as when gripping very fine materials. Things like very small signal wires – that’s where the cross-hatching excels, at least on long nose pliers. In larger pliers, cross hatching can improve the grip. In theory, cross hatching can greatly increase gripping surface area. In practice, if you’re slipping with NWS pliers, then there might be something wrong in the execution.
It’s hard for me to really compare straight-grooved NWS pliers and cross-hatched Channellocks. In practice, both perform well. I’m not in a position where I can use both brands’ linesman’s and combinations pliers daily and interchangeably for a month before reporting back. And even then, there are so many small differences in jaw profiles and handle grips that a straight up comparison is going to be too difficult. It’s going to come down to needs and wants.
NWS pliers might be overkill for household projects, but for model trains where you might want as much control as possible? You might see benefits from the NWS pliers’ grips.
For micro/super fine pliers, I’ve bought a couple of Proto, Swanstrom, and an Erem I found at a Woodworking Show liquidator’s booth. A Lindstrom rep sent over a 4pc set a while back, and it’s very easy to see why Lindstroms command the prices they do.
For very fine soldering work, lead retaining cutters might be useful (https://toolguyd.com/mini-electronic-cutters-with-lead-catcher/). I bought a Knipex, haven’t used it very much yet though.
If your Swanstroms are holding up, then there’s not much better you could (should) do. I wouldn’t replace them, I would simply complement them with different cutter and plier styles. If you find yourself using one style most often, then you could always upgrade just that one to a $40+ Lindstrom, Erem, or Tronex.
Xcelite is also a decent brand, and affordable too. I don’t like them as much as Swanstrom pliers though.
If it makes you feel better, buying precision tools is a big headache for me too. Sometimes I wish I could mash several different brands’ tools together to make the *perfect* pliers or cutters.
I have heard good things about Tronex, but they’re soooo pricey.
Eric
Stuart,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate your wish to mash-up the best features of these tools. If NWS just integrated cross hatching, my decision would be a lot easier…
If I can read through the tea leaves properly, I’d interpret that there is a minor performance improvement from cross hatching in both macro and semi-fine applicationsm, but the ergonomics improvement is slightly more beneficial for extended use. I use long nose pliers for pretty long sessions, so I think your weighting makes sense in my case as well.
If I could ask for your experience for three remaining questions, I would sincerely appreciate it!
1.) STEEL QUALITY
I have a pair of Knipex electrician’s pliers. The profile is nice and thin for wiring work and the grip is good. They’ve been my go-to pliers for about 6 years. However, 2 years ago, a significant chunk of the tip chipped off one side under normal use. Makes me skeptical of Knipex steel quality and, by extension, potentially NWS. I believe both use vanadium German steel, but I could be wrong. Could you comment on the brittleness/flexibility of NWS pliers in your experience?
2.) TIGHTNESS
I also have a pair of Channellock heavy diagonal cutters. They cut great but are very tight. This is fine for this application where I am not using it with a high frequency. However, long nose pliers and combination pliers/dikes need to be free moving enough that you are not constantly fighting to open them every operation. Can you also comment on the tightness of your Channellocks vs NWS?
3.) ERGONOMICS
Can you comment on comfort grip quality of NWS vs Channellock (“Code Blue”)? I wasn’t sure if the Channellocks you were using were simple dipped handles only.
I’ll need to brush up on the Proto, Erem, and Lindstrom micro-pliers options. It sounds like you think the premium tier brands are worth the investment vs value tier offerings like Xuron. I will also look into the lead retainers for cutting. Shoulda thought of that before that blast furnace project…
I’ll probably make a decision tonight, so the timing of your help for the long nose pliers and combination pliers/dikes is Fantastico 😉
Thanks again for lending your experience and expertise, Stuart. I sincerely appreciate it!
Cheers,
Eric
Eric
Forgot to ask about the effectiveness and claims of improved longevity of the anvil design for the cutter in the Channelocks vs the edge-to-edge design for NWS. Ever noticed any meaningful difference?
Stuart
In *theory*, there should be a difference. In practice, straight grooved vs. cross-hatched might not make any bit of difference.
Crosshatching is also a benefit with really narrow nosed pliers, such as snipe nose or needle nose pliers. But for chain nose pliers, which are shorter and stubbier, there’s enough width that you might not see a substantial benefit. A company like NWS won’t design pliers that cannot grip the types of materials they’re designed to work with. Even with straight grooves, there might be slight angles that help to improve contact area and part retention.
1. I haven’t noticed any substantial brittleness with Knipex or NWS. A once-in-a-blue-moon flawed heat treatment could lead to pliers with tips that break off. Internal flaws could also be to blame. I haven’t broken any of my pliers yet.
2. NWS are loosey goosey. I have stiff Channellock and Klein pliers, but all of my NWS pliers were perfect to open and close from day 1.
3. I don’t have any Channellock Code Blue pliers in front of me, but from what I recall, I prefer NWS.
4. Xurons offer great value for the money, and are darned good tools. You won’t find better tools for the money, at least in my opinion. But if you have a bigger budget, there are better tools out there.
5. I haven’t been on the lookout for differences between edge-to-edge and edge-to-anvil. I <3 my NWS Fantasitco cutters, edge-to-edge blades and all.
Eric
That settles it for me! NWS here I come. Loose fit, comfortable, good gripping power.
I’ll check out the other micro plier offerings and see if the additional benefits outweigh the extra cost. Good to know you think the Xurons are competent as a potential starting point.
Thanks for your patience and responses to my questions tonight Stuart! It was super helpful!
Chris Fyfe
I own both . I enjoy both . For me , the NWS grips feel slightly better . Knipex has a broader line up , NWS has some very innovative designs .
Chris
SteveR
Stuart–No disrespect to anyone, but most of the conversation seems to be about appearance and feel of the handles. I assumed that Ton’s initial question went to the issue of “which cuts/performs better?”, rather than which has the better feel or appearance. Obviously, we all want tools that look good and have a great feel to their handles but, bottom line, we want a tool that cuts well, stays sharp and performs over the long haul.
Unfortunately, my experience is limited to Knipex, so I can’t add much to the discussion. As for appearance, NWS is the peacock of the two. They’re both German-made, so I would expect excellent performance from each of them. Are there readers out there who have used both over the past few years and found one clearly better in performance (and can back that up with specific examples)?
Stuart
I get what you’re saying.
With these brands of pliers, I could sit here cutting 100 feet of wire into 1/8″ pieces, and I still wouldn’t be able to tell you which performs better. As I said, I never had issues with either brand of pliers.
Cutting performance is going to be on par. Might one last longer? Possibly, but that’s not something I intend to sit here and test.
With these brands, the determining factor comes down to feel. At least in regard to the two types of pliers Ton specifically asked about, there are too many aspects that are more or less equal to be able to rank one higher in terms of general performance.
I don’t use long nose pliers for cutting wire, I use them for manipulating smaller parts and parts in tighter spaces. Which performs better? I can’t tell you as I don’t have duplicate pliers styles across both brands.
I’ll use NWS straight-tip pliers for one task, then reach for my bent-nose Knipex for something else. I have a larger Knipex long nose pliers around here somewhere as well, but I haven’t seen it in a while.
I have used both brands of tools for quite some time, and still can’t tell you which one is clearly better. Rather than just shrug and say “I dunno,” I commented about the one aspect that leads me to prefer NWS over Knipex, and that’s the handle grips.
Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter how they look, but feel is an important aspect. If using a tool makes you want to throw it across the room, then a marginal lead in performance means nothing. Both Knipex and NWS make comfortable tools. But if I had to pick one that would be in my hand half a day, it would be NWS.
That all said, I’m happy nobody asked about dipped grip vs. comfort grip. Comfort grips will often win out, but both brands make stellar dipped grips as well.
I see your point, but I can’t really be apologetic about my focus on the feel of the pliers first and foremost. I’m not saying or trying to imply that performance isn’t important, but that there’s just too little distinction in their long nose and combination pliers for either brand to push in front of the other.
rx9
Keep in mind that knipex has a few models sold under the craftsman name, and nws has a few models sold under the irwin name. To me it’s as silly as picking up a “Chevrolet RS6 Avant” or a “Ford M3”, but occasionally badly thought out rebranding efforts like this go on clearance.
Stuart
Yup. My Knipex Cobras are Craftsman-branded. The set and individual sizes have been available at Sears for a long time now, and I doubt they’ll be discontinued or clearanced. They do go on sale every now and then.
ktash
Here’s a pair of Knipex 09 02 240 9 1/4″ High Leverage Linemans Pliers at Woot. Only $24 plus shipping. Cheapest price I’ve seen.
http://tools.woot.com/offers/high-leverage-linemans-pliers-ne-style-nose-4?ref=cnt_wp_1_11
Jeff
I’d buy a pair of this only if they would offer the 8″ version of it.
http://shop.nws-tools.de/en/catalog/product/view/id/2020/s/high-leverage-combination-pliers-combimax/category/315/
Rob
To me the gripping jaws look to skinny for twisting cable. I use Channellock linesman pliers atm but am finding the steel used is to soft and they don’t last longer than 6 months. Looking at possibly trying Knipex or nws but am worried about the width of them.
Robsta
I’m a bit late to this, but owning plenty of both I’d said Knipex have it hands down. They’re just better made. All my NWS stuff seems a bit rough. I’d still take NWS over any cheaper brand, but as they’re typically about the same price as Knipex, I’ll take the latter any day unless the former are in the sale.