I have been thinking about the growing complexity in the cordless power tool industry. A couple of years ago, 18V vs. 20V Max (they’re really the same thing) was the biggest source of confusion. Now? There’s a lot more to it.
For the sake of this post, we’ll only be looking at 5 brands – Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, Metabo HPT, and Milwaukee.
Original Post Date: 2/11/2020
Latest Update: 6/1/2021
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Bosch 18V
Bosch has recently started promoting their new line of Profactor cordless power tools, which is an extension of their 18V cordless power tool system.
Before that, Bosch had been emphasizing their next-gen Core18V batteries, which are basically larger form-factor and higher capacity battery packs. Profactor seems to be a way of remarketing the Core18V product line.
There are also a couple of Bosch “BiTurbo” tools that only achieve peak power when paired with a Core18V 8.0Ah to 12.0Ah battery.
In 2019, I wondered about the types of new tools Bosch’s 12.0Ah battery might power, and now we know – this will be an exclusive high capacity for the Bosch Profactor line of cordless power tools. Why? They won’t say.
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Bosch still seems to be chasing after competitors, and time will tell as to whether Profactor is a success story or not.
See More on Bosch 18V Cordless Power Tools
Dewalt 20V Max & FlexVolt
As you are probably aware, Dewalt’s FlexVolt lineup is their heavier duty cordless power tool system, featuring a 60V Max battery that can also be used with their 20V Max tools and chargers.
You can’t use 20V Max batteries in Dewalt FlexVolt tools, but one-way compatibility is still very much appreciated.
Dewalt has blurred the line a little bit this year, with new 20V Max FlexVolt Advantage and Power Detect tools that deliver a performance boost when paired with higher capacity 20V Max of FlexVolt batteries. These tools don’t quite deliver FlexVolt-level power, but they come close, and are fully part of the 20V Max system.
Dewalt recently announced a new FlexVolt 15Ah battery, and I’m very much of the opinion that this won’t just be about a new battery but a new level of tool performance as well. We’ll see.
See More on: Dewalt 20V Max Tools || FlexVolt Power Tools
Makita 18V, 18VX2, XGT 40V Max
Makita has their 18V cordless power tool lineup, and also 18VX2 tools. 18VX2 (36V equivalent) tools tend to be a little bulky, and Makita has reached tech limits as to how much power they can squeeze out of 18V battery packs without stepping up to larger form factor cells.
Makita USA has said they they don’t plan on ever releasing next-gen compact 4.0Ah or 8.0Ah LXT battery packs to the 18V system, which is disappointing and positions them far behind competitors.
Following lengthy delays, Makita launched their 40V Max XGT system, a 36V Li-ion system that is completely incompatible with their 18V system. Makita’s 18V and X2 tool developments seem to be slowing down, but the brand insists they haven’t reached the end of the road yet.
Makita’s XGT launch was a contradictory mess, with press presentations entirely focused on comparisons to Milwaukee’s MX Fuel and Dewalt FlexVolt systems, with claims that XGT will be a true “One Battery System” unlike competing brands’ systems. But, it’s not.
Makita USA also pointed to competitors’ larger battery sizes, exclaiming that they cannot be comfortably paired with smaller tools such as an impact driver. But how is this larger and heavier XGT 5Ah battery impact driver-friendly?
Makita also seems to be pushing their latest and greatest developments into their 18V form-factor 36V/40V Max XGT lineup, with 18V LXT equivalents having less frills and features. I can understand an 18V-sized 36V battery delivering more performance, but what’s the excuse for not giving flagship 18V tools the best features? This wouldn’t be so concerning if there were an XGT to 18V adapter of some kind, but there isn’t one and Makita won’t discuss why.
Publicly, Makita USA has been touting the XGT lineup’s features, such as “rare earth magnets,” “pure copper wire,” built-in microchips,” and “digital communications” – basic technologies also found in competing brands’ brushless power tools.
At least they’re not drawing comparisons to their ancient NiCad line as they do with their 18V LXT and 18V X2 systems.
Makita looks to be the first brand to build deterrents into their tools and batteries, to limit performance or charging capacity of 3rd party XGT batteries. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a trend.
See More on Makita 18V Cordless Power Tools || 18V X2 || XGT
Metabo HPT 18V and MultiVolt
Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi) has their 18V line, and new MultiVolt 36V/18V line.
Similar to the relationship between Dewalt’s 20V Max and FlexVolt system, Metabo HPT’s MultiVolt batteries are compatible with their new 36V tools and also their existing 18V tools. 18V batteries won’t work in the 36V tools.
And, there’s a MultiVolt AC adapter for users who need unlimited runtime and don’t mind being plugged in.
The brand has recently come out with an industry-first full-size router, and there’s plenty of potential for more “firsts.”
Other innovations, such as their compact reciprocating saw, are an interesting deviation from the typical specs race most brands compete in.
Metabo HPT’s cordless platforms are easy to follow, but there’s one major common confusion, and that’s the name. Those in-the-know are aware that Metabo HPT used to be Hitachi Power Tools, but plenty of people mistakenly think Metabo and Metabo HPT are the same when they’re not.
See More on Metabo HPT 18V Cordless Power Tools
Milwaukee M18
Milwaukee’s M18 system is straightforward, and perhaps the easiest cordless power tool lineup to make sense of.
Read More: Milwaukee M18 Cordless Power Tool Battery Sizes Explained
Here are their battery options:
Compact (CP)
- 1.5Ah
- 2.0Ah
- 3.0Ah – High Output
Extended Capacity (XC)
- 3.0Ah
- 4.0Ah
- 5.0Ah
- 6.0Ah – High Output
- 8.0Ah – High Output
High Demand (HD)
- 9.0Ah
- 12.0Ah – High Output
Basically, you go with the compact battery for light duty tools, XC batteries for heavier duty tools, and HD batteries for highest power tools. The compact High Output battery can be used in lieu of the XC tools for all of the core tools, and the XC High Output batteries can be used in their heaviest duty tools in place of the HD 9.0Ah battery. The 12.0Ah battery provides the highest power and longest runtime.
There’s a little more to keep track of, but every M18 battery fits in every tool. No, a standard XC battery isn’t the best pairing for tools optimized for the HD battery, but it’ll work. For instance, you can use an M18 5.0Ah battery with the brand’s M18 Fuel cordless table saw, but HD and High Output batteries are the better choice for more taxing cuts.
Milwaukee also has their MX FUEL cordless power equipment system, which is an entirely different class of tools that 18V tech simply cannot power.
See More on Milwaukee M18 Cordless Power Tools
Apples vs. Oranges
Comparing the different cordless power tool systems is getting more complicated.
It appears that Bosch and Milwaukee are following similar paths for their 18V systems. On one hand, users have to properly match the battery to the tool and application, but on the other hand, you have full system compatibility.
Dewalt and Metabo HPT are following similar paths, where you have higher-powered tools that require higher-voltage batteries. The batteries are one-way cross-compatible with 18V tools.
Neither approach is really better than the other, they’re just different.
Then you have Makita, with their 18V and 18VX2 tools, and now 40V Max XGT. The incompatibility between 18V and 40V Max tools and batteries is a big downside. Except for the optional charging adapter, XGT is a completely separate system, and this is a huge competitive disadvantage given the one-way compatibility Dewalt and Metabo HPT built into their higher voltage systems.
Dewalt FlexVolt vs. Milwaukee M18 has been an interesting comparison, but also a difficult one. It’ll be interesting to see which brand raises the ceiling next, but I have a feeling it will be Dewalt with their 15Ah battery.
See Also: Dewalt FlexVolt vs. Milwaukee M18 High Demand Cordless Power Tool Systems, Revisited
The “more volts are better” argument doesn’t really apply anymore, with Milwaukee especially going to great lengths to squeeze as much as they can from 18V systems. Milwaukee could potentially double-up on batteries, but the same could be said about Dewalt – don’t forget that they launched FlexVolt with a couple of 120V Max (60V Max x 2) tools.
Metabo HPT’s MultiVolt 36V battery has an 18V form factor, and can power their 18V cordless power tools. Plus there’s the AC adapter.
Makita’s XGT 40V Max (36V) battery is also an 18V form factor, but will not work with anything but XGT tools. Complicating the matter is that when they start releasing XGT single-battery versions of 18V X2 tools, runtime will be greatly diminished unless larger and heavier batteries are used. Even then, going from 18V X2 to 36/40V Max will likely be a side-grade.
Bosch’s Profactor tools launched a few years after they were announced, and they kept the unconventional branding such as FREAK, Hitman, and Surgeon.
Things will only get more complex as the brands take different approaches towards higher performance “cordless jobsite” solutions.
Which approach to higher performance tools do you prefer or find most appealing?
If you haven’t upgraded yet, or would make different decisions, would you go with an “everything fits” system, a dual-voltage system with one-way compatibility, or two separate systems?
Stephen
I have the Bosch Core 4.0 and 6.3 batteries. They are only slightly larger than the next Ah size down on the non-Core batteries (1.5 and 4.0).
They are incredibly compact and even smaller than my Ryobi 1.5 and 3.0 batteries.
Michael
I remember when cordless tool (drill) reviews showcased how many screws the drill could drive into a 2×4 on a single charge. Pretty much one battery option pretty brand. Now it’s really a question of how much battery you can tolerate hanging off the end of the drill. Working on a ladder running in drywall screws overhead? Use this light battery. Yeah, it’ll go most of the day. Change it while you’re moving the ladder if you need to. Running in 8″ timberloks all day? Here’s a battery for that; you’ll be tired before it’s done…
Chaz R Krueger
still a better option than dragging a cord around all day
Michael
We just need more adapters!
I’m all for the bigger AH and bigger cells in 18v, due to adapters
I can use Milwaukee fuel battery in my ryobi, Makita Ridgid , DeWalt tools
But now thinking about dewalts power station and Makitas backpack.. perhaps I’ll switch to Makita batteries/adapters.
I’d def go bosche procore, but sadly no Ridgid adapter , so can’t use the shop vac without another battery brand
Mark
I have the old 18v DeWalt in the shop and all DeWalt 20v max and flexvolt on my tool trailer. I have always liked DeWalt. Having said that I do have a large collection of Milwaukee m12 tools for lighter work. I like to stick to one battery system for ease of use.
TheToolmat
Yeah with a $20 adapter off eBay, I am able to run those old 18v tools too!
Many people dump them cheap online, but grab a nailer or ? For a bargain and use the adapter.
Also one for Milwaukee and Ryobi etc… To run the different platforms (Makita too)
Just wish someone would make a Ridgid to DeWalt or Milwaukee one since their 9ah batteries are $89 every few months
John Mackay
On the subject of the $20 adapter. I tried the adapter on my 18v DeWalt nailer but it just refused to work.
Matt
The adapter problem on the nailer… i thought the same thing when i tried it. But look closely and smack into place.
It works!
I just re installed and popped it with my palm to sit in the first few times, now it installs easily.
I assume its that 3d printer tightness they talk about. After a few installs it should click in Very snug and work
Greg Prangley
any tool that has electronics in it wont work with the 18-220 v adapter. cheers.
PETE
Your googlefu needs some tune up. Check ebay – https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Dewalt-20V-MAX-XR-Li-Ion-Battery-To-Ridgid-18V-Cordless-Impact-Tools-Adapter-/264587513468
Bitchpuhlease
He was looking for the other direction, meaning ridgid battery on dewalt tool.
Matt
I saw the ridgid to dewalt adapters once, i believe they were from Australia.
But no longer selling them.
I have a few adapters and i noticed the last one i got that was Milw. To dewalt also worked the other way around.
I have used them with no problems for quite a while now.
I was trying to stay all Milwaukee, but a year later i am in dewalt – Ridgid- Milwaukee-ryobi. Crazy how that works!
PETE
Don’t test my google-fu. It’s pretty strong
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEWALT-20V-MAX-Tools-Batteries-Adaper-Work-with-AEG-RIDGID-18V-Li-ion-Battery/202751388349?hash=item2f34ecaabd:g:m2QAAOSw71pbzpzO
Mike
They do make a Ridgid to Milwaukee o run one
Think they do it for Makita or DeWalt too
Kent Skinner
One of the issues with the adapters is that some companies put the Battery Management System (BMS) on the tool & charger, while others put it on the battery.
I’d have no problem running a Ryobi from an M18 battery, because I know the battery will protect itself.
I’d want to make sure I don’t end up with a non-managed battery in a non-managed tool before I just start playing mix & match with adapters.
Koko The Talking Ape
Speaking of which, has anybody tested these batteries as batteries, independent of any tool? Something like the number of charges they can accept without losing x amount of performance, or A-h per weight or volume?
Stuart
Testing Ah for low loads? I can and have done that for some batteries.
But to test the higher capacity batteries at loads they were designed to handle, that requires much pricier equipment.
It’s also possible to cycle-test batteries, where you have automated charge and discharge cycles.
Koko The Talking Ape
Thanks, Stuart! To your knowledge, do these different brands of battery packs perform similarly, given a similar Ah rating?
Big Richard
Tip of my hat to Metabo HPT and their MultiVolt system. I like that any of the MultiVolt tools can run off the AC adapter, unlike Flexvolt where only the miter saw utilizes an AC adapter.
Also Metabo HPT is the only cordless 10″ table saw out there. And personally I like that they went with a 45lb 10″ miter saw, rather than a 55lb 12″ miter saw like DeWalt. Portability matters with cordless, imo.
Chuck
Milwaukee has one
Big Richard
Yes, Milwaukee does have a 10″ cordless miter, but it was not designed around their HO battery system, so it is not quite on par. Also, it is not a great saw. I have heard that their new 12″ is better, but haven’t used it yet.
TheToolmat
The NEW 12 inch bare tool red miter $549 at acme NO TAX FOR MANY, FREE SHIPPING, Thats a DEAL !
Saw this on the toolboss deals videos on YouTube.
HD doesn’t even have it yet..
KentH
The Milwaukee is most certainly designed around their HO batteries. When you purchase with a battery it comes with the 12ah HD battery. Plus, it has their one-key system incorporated into the tool.
Big Richard
Milwaukee’s 12″ miter saw and 8 1/4″ table saw are designed around the HO system. The 10″ miter was not. That was designed around the HD 9.0 battery. Don’t take my word for it, check it out.
Matt
My table-saw came with two 12 ah HD batteries.
I believe it said in their website to utilize the HD vs the HO.
Although it can be pushed by any mw battery, i prefer the 12’s due to the weight it adds to stability of the saw when in use.
Big Richard
@Matt, The 12.0 HD batteries are HO. Scan above to see the article, where it defines the HO batteries. There are 4 HO batteries.
– CP 3.0
– XC 6.0
– XC 8.0
– HD 12.0
I’ll try this more time, the 12″ miter saw and 8 1/4″ table saw were designed around the HO battery system. In other words, they achieve their maximum performance using the HO batteries. Tools that were not designed around the HO system, like the 10″ miter saw that I was originally referring to, do not benefit (at least not nearly as much) from the HO battery system.
Josh
With about 20 years under my belt as a contractor I have tried them all. I now run the full Metabo HPT tool line and I’ve got to say that they blow everything out of the water except possibly the Dewalt flexvolt which is quite comparable. However the 10 inch chop saw and 10 inch table saw battery powered (or corded If you so chose which is a step above the rest) the ladder of the two being made by no other company are hands down the best cordless tools on the planet currently and complimented by all the other great powerful and quite versatile tools. I will stay with them as long as they make tools. So impressed.
Jp
Milwaukee does not have a 10 inch table saw, it’s smaller and it does not plug in. Unless they came up with something within the last month. Metabo hpt is the only one and it is a very very nice tool,as are all their others.
Jp
Table saw, not miter. Metabo hpt is the only cordless 10″ table saw on the market…. And it’s optional corded unlike Milwaukee.
Corey Moore
If I recall, that 10″ table saw is metabo proper, not metabo htp (Hitachi) and can’t be run on metabo htp batteries.
MattJ
https://www.toolbarn.com/metabo-hpt-c3610drjq4m.html/
Like all things Metabo HPT, it is confusing. It is not a Metabo proper product. It is Metabo HPT. It will only run on Metabo HPT 36V FlexVolt batteries (or the AC plug in adapter), and it will not accept Metabo HPT batteries.
Perhaps Metabo (proper) has something else, but I haven’t seen it. I think this is the saw Big Richard was referencing.
MattJ
Edit — It will not accept Metabo HPT 18V batteries.
Very similar to FlexVolt tools not accepting 20V Max batteries.
Corey Moore
I see I had it backwards, my apologies. Honestly, I had forgotten that the thing existed until it was just mentioned. I never surmised Hitachi as near a premium brand, but Metabo HTP has some damn impressive offerings. Seems to have been a very beneficial acquisition on both sides.
Big Richard
Same here, but they really have stepped it up as of late. Their MultiVolt recip saw may be one of the best (although heaviest) I’ve ever used. And the fact that you can run it on the AC adapter if needed, makes it all the more desirable. The stuff ain’t cheap though.
MattJ
They were a weird brand, even back when it was just Hitachi. Always seemed to me like 60-70% of their tools were DIY and entry level stuff made to compete with the likes of Ryobi — for example, Metabo HPT still has the cheapest widely available 10″ Miter saw of any mainstream brand — but they also made some stuff on par with top of the line stuff from Makita, DeWalt, and Milwaukee (e.g. — larger table saws, Triple Hammer Impact Driver, MultiVolt Hammer drill, etc.)
As I don’t believe they have any sister companies like B&D, Ryobi, Ridgid, Craftsman, etc. in which to stratify their products, I guess it makes some sense that they make everything from entry to professional quality.
Jp
No it is Metabo hpt mutivolt 36v system. It is also the only 10 inch cordless table saw and it is truly phenomenal. Nothing else like it.
Chris
Where’s the article on 12v systems 😛
Wow, it’s been quite a while since I’ve commented on TG. I’ve been reading articles, just haven’t felt inclined to add my thoughts.
Stuart
Well, there’s Milwaukee, and everyone else. =)
Not much has been changing in the 12V landscape. DeWalt finally picked up interest and launched new drills, drivers, and saws, but it’s unclear if the momentum will continue.
Perry
I have to disagree Stuart, Skil has expanded their 12v line dramatically. The reviews I’ve read have all been overwhelmingly positive
Skye A Cohen
I use milwuakee but it seems like Makita is the most popular around, at least in my corner of the world. I’ve used Makita milwuakee and DeWalt a lot, these days I pretty much never see bosch or metabo unless they’re old. I prefer milwuakee just because they have some tools in the lineup that I like a lot, the worm drive style saw, the 7.25in double bevel chop saw, the super hawg and the hackzall. I also think they have the best impact driver of the bunch but I will say that of teal vs yellow vs red they’re all great we’re lucky to have a lot of nice tools to choose from, it wasn’t always this way
Scott taylor
I love the Ridgid stuff. Shame to not see it with octane stuff. The stealth driver and the mega max with octane batteries rock. Home depot had the max with 5ah batteries bonus pack reduced 50% a couple weeks ago so i got the sds drill and sawsall attachment. The max sawsall is almost a match for my 2008 ridgid 12amp, which was my first ridgid tool and a true beast. I still use it to cut crossties using a 12 inch pruning blade
TheToolmat
Yeah I regret not getting that MegaMax with the sawzsall attachment for those prices.
Will be on the lookout for that again, it usually rolls back around!
Jp
Metabo hpt all the way, Dewalt as a second choice because of versatility of tools
Caffeine
Im a Dewalt guy personally, just because of particular tools other brands didnt offer at the time.
Theres a lot of misinformation and talking down on competitors in the tool industry and it really sucks, whatever brand you choose, they pretty much all have great things to offer and its competition that drives them all to be better.
Ive been on some strange worksites where the tradies all have a pack mentality about tool brands, way ive always seen it is who really cares, you get the job done, you do it well, what does it matter what you use to get there? Rock up with a ryobi kit on an industrial site, I dont care, as long as you do your job haha.
Clifford Alloway
Well said, we have mostly bosch and flex volt. No shame in using any of them. Even the worst pro brand is so much better than what was around 15 years ago it’s not even funny. we are blessed to have the competition in that industry as they make it better for all.
Robert Adkins
Some probably use the same tools on the job site so they can borrow batteries and chargers. 🙂
JakeJ
I’d say, as far as batteries go, Bosch. (I still have a few around made in 2011, which still take a charge!). It’s just such a damn shame they lag so far behind on what tools they offer to use them in, especially regarding the ProCore ones.
Clifford Alloway
We have some bosch batteries that are prolly 12 years or older that still charge, but I handed them down to my 7 y.o. son to use. Last year. Their stuff does last but it’s a shame they don’t seem to care about competing in the cordless market.
Cr8on
I “drew the line” at one battery platform, then said ” that’s it” when I started a 2nd, and now I’m in 3 battery ecosystems. I can see myself at some point adding DeWalt’s flexvolt stuff when the need arises, since it’s a natural path for me. I’d like to see some Ridgid octane stuff hit the higher tier tools it’s sister Milwaukee does.
Of the 5 brands you mentioned I don’t see Bosch really punching above their weight like the rest. I really think Bosch should be the leader, with all the high quality appliances, auto parts, and everything else they dip their hands in you’d think their engineering departments would get together. Don’t get me wrong, every Bosch tool I’ve used (corded) have been excellent, if not better, than others, but cordless… Meh.
Madnyss
XGT has been released in japan. Only interesting product is the drill. Smaller and more powerful. 150Nm, 2600 rpm hi, 650 rpm low, Electronic Clutch, Active Force Sensing.
https://www.makita.co.jp/product/40vmax_series/hp001grdx/hp001grdx_j_view.pdf
But … looks like 40V 2.5Ah is still using 18650 due to it being smaller than the 4Ah. I like the look of the drill but it appears platform is subpar. No 15 cell packs for larger tools eg table saw, drop saw, ope, sds max or XGT x2 so far and no newer 6/8Ah High output or 4Ah slims for 18v. No backwards compatibility which should be possible.
Worst deadend for anyone owning 18v platform as all top of line products will most likely be 40v only like this new drill.
Jim
I started with ryobi, went to ridgid because i felt like the quality was as good as dewalt for a much better price. Had batteries that sat in the garage all winter at sub zero temps then put them in a tool come spring and the battery still had almost a full charge and went right to work. Then they got the “octane” battery. Those stupid things lose charge sitting for a week in fairly mild temps. Got me thinking about moving to dewalt after all.
E'Ski
I jump on Ridgid Octane platform, I’m actually impressed. Most of the carpenters I work with are on the Milwaukee line. And I understand why, their latest version of the 18 guage finish nailer is the best ever made. Their drills are compact and indestructible. All that being said, the Octane line is keeping up with the Milwaukee’s just fine, in some cases better. Ridgid’s Cordless vacuum has been one of the most convenient tools for my jobs.
Roger
DeWalt FLEXVOLT, with little to no TSA harassment, can…
FLY
JakeJ
Is that true with the Flexvolt batteries?? I fly international with tools/batteries often and it can be a major hassle. Last time i had a bosch 12ah ProCore and they just about confiscated it from me. Eventually i put the battery on one of the usb charger devices and put tape over the on/off switch and that appeased them enough to let me keep it. They don’t seem to have an issue with the smaller batteries.
Big Richard
Yup, the red little cap thingy that comes on Flexvolt battery pack separates each bank of cells, effectively turning it into 3 batteries instead of one. Even with the largest 12Ah pack, it ends up as 3 80Wh batteries, all below the 100Wh limit. You need airline approval for batteries over 100Wh.
JakeJ
Thanks. I know the ones you’re referring to. Can’t recall if mine came with one of those on them when brand new. If so, I would ve been in such a rush to throw the battery on the charger , most likely i just chucked it back in the box and threw it away.
Adam
I’ve started buying Milwaukee cordless, I like there tools, but makita’s new XGT looks good , a XGT Rear handle worm drive saw would be good, I don’t like makita’s 18 volt two battery system , and Dewalt flexvolt, I like some of there tools.
Fergal
For me bosch is the best and the most reliable only downside is that there isn’t enough tools to pick from but the battery is by far the best. I’ve had dewalt and Milwaukee tools build quality not as good as bosch and battery lifetime nowhere close to bosch. But on the other hand variety of tools way ahead of bosch.
Toolfreak
I prefer the simplicity of the Bosch/Milwaukee 18V, and given the position of the brands in the pro tool market, I’d say simple is pretty popular with consumers.
That said, I do like the innovation of the various systems that allow a higher voltage battery to be used in 18V tools and charged on 18V chargers. It’s great that they went with that option instead of having unique batteries and chargers for every single higher voltage system, which would lead to a lot of different batteries and chargers depending on what higher voltage tools you want.
Thecarpenter1
I’ve been using Makita cordless since 7.2 and 9.6 volt back in the 1990’s.
Love the tools, balance, grip feel and power have served me well.
The new 12 volt line is nice in the weight to power ratio.
I’m an old dog not likely to invest in a new product line but the Dewalt and Ridgid appear to have the best value equation.
Makita introducing a totally new battery system will cost them loyal users before they gain new ones.
Most of the young guy’s I’m working with use Milwaukee or Ridgid.
Flotsam
This article should have included Ridgid. I would have like an explanation of the difference between the standard 18v batteries and the blue label Octane batteries and their interchangeability.
Also i thought there was something about Metabo (or is it Metabo HPT) using a battery that is interchangeable between multiple brands. A concept I know a number of users have been railing for years about.
I can also see the usefulness of an article addressing the 12v side of things. There were new products by DeWalt & Makita (maybe Metabo) recently for instance and of course Milwaukee M12 is the big dog. It would be an interesting article.
Ken
When Milwaukee obsoleted their old V18 line I switched to Dewalt and I have been very happy. I now own 12 Dewalt 20v max tools and 5 Flexvolt tools.
However, I am eventually added back in Milwaukee M12 tools because there are so many useful ones that nobody else offers. The cutoff tool, ratchets, under hood light, soldering iron, strong impacts, and now the die grinders. I race and I find myself using the M12 line all the time at the track. Small, powerful, useful for automotive work.
TheToolmat
Yeah I never thought I wanted or would buy any of the M12 tools, now the driver sits out and gets used about 98% of the time…I use off brand batteries and they are strong and actually work great!
Grabbed a bit holder that attached to it, they actual 3d build them with your lettering of choice on them, found that guy on Instagram, but the driver has completed every job I have thrown at it.
SDI SHOP
We are a large contractor, we used DeWalt for years until the 60 volt line came out and we went with Makita as the equipment Manager I have to look at not only battery life but tool performance.
I tested out many other tool brands before the switch to Malita we found that Makita had some of the best battery life for size and AH but also our repair cost and down time on tools went down by 35% we purchase only 5.0AH batteries we find that is the best system for us.
PlaneGrain
Home Depot- M18 battery starter kit. Includes HD 9.0, XC 5.0, charger, tool bag($199.00). Not in any stores near me, available online.
PlaneGrain
He reviews on this kit(198 reviews- all 5 stars). But Acme tools on the HD 9.0 battery alone is only 1.8 stars out of 5. One review mentioned the HD 9.0 has a poor warranty. Confusing reviews.
TheToolmat
Poor warranty? Aren’t their batteries all 3years?
Seems to be the industry standard.
Ihave only had one issue with a Milwaukee tool, my Tablesaw had a wonky
Fence clip after a year, we couldn’t figure it out on the telephone, which by the way the guy was awesome, had the Tablesaw right in front of him and we tried to solve the problem, but it was a mystery, so he said ok, and just sent me a new fence, works great, no cost, no hassle, really appreciated that. (Just referencing my warranty experience, they seem to have a good Dept to deal with problems)
Andrew
The 9ah and 12ah batteries have slightly different warranty processes because of their watt hours. You just have to wait for Milwaukee to ship you a box instead of just dropping it off at FedEx
Art
A way to look at battery voltage is from the perspective of power. Power is volts * amps. So if you are designing a tool that needs to dissipate a certain amount of power to function properly the lower the battery voltage the more current required for a certain target power. That means you have to increase conductor sizes in the tool and motor to handle that current. And that makes the tool heavier and possibly larger.
This is why the AC system on airplanes is 400Hz instead of 60Hz. Smaller and lighter transformers and motors.
There is probably another trade-off where upping the battery voltage indefinitely results in other losses that come into play but I don’t know that.
Wayne R.
Computers, every type of media device, phones, tablets, GPS stuff, and now battery-powered tools join the club where, at some point, it gets tempting or even required to just chuck everything you have and start over.
Most of the stuff in my list above is life-limited due to software “epochs”, but batteries have a new angle. Which I find really dumb – older equipment might function just fine, but it’s too hard/expensive to “fix” most worn out batteries and at some point, you just can’t get quality replacements. Stop in at any pawn shop to see the lineups of tools with life left in them but no batteries anywhere…
I’m sure glad I don’t have to deal with this on a large scale; it’d be maddening.
fred
Over my working life – the overwhelming preponderance of the small power tools that I bought were for a business. Most (depending on what our accountants advised) were expensed within the year that they were bought. A few (usually with first cost >=$500) were put on depreciation schedules to be amortized over time.
For my personal collection – the sad reality is that most of the cordless tools that I own may not be worth passing down to the next generation and almost certainly not to my grand children. The same might not be said for some of my corded stationary and bench-top machinery – which with some TLC should have useful lives well into the future. Furthermore, many of my hand tools (like Stanley planes passed to me from 2 to 3 generations back) should be viable for generations to come.
My take on all of this – is that we should buy what makes us productive and happy right now – and not obsess over when the next paradigm shift in battery technology will obsolete what we have.
Diplomatic Immunity
This is why I specifically splurge when it comes to non-powered hand tools. A great hand saw or screwdriver is still going to a great handsaw or screwdriver 40 years from now if not abused.
IronWood
Yeah, I’m going to agonize over a cabinet saw, hand planes, or mechanics tools. But I’ll buy what I need now in cordless tools and not worry too much about the specs, price, etc. They’re not going to be around forever for better or worse. In the shipyards we just buy what we want, (ab)use the cr@p out of them and the company replaces them when they burn up. Doesn’t lead one to get too sentimental…
Perry
I’ve been a makita guy for over 20 years, but if this new XGT line ends up being more of a replacement with no compatibility to their 18v line up, it will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and I’ll move over to dewalt. Makita tools have been great, but they are slow to innovate in the carpentry arena. No cordless table saw, compressor or framing nailer, and they dont have much in the way of finish nailers either. I like the ergonomics and the trigger controls in many drills have more steps in them which gives better control, but if I have to buy into another lineup, why not buy into one that has everything I need?
Andrew
Agreed. Of course I have been on Makita for years for not even having basic things like good lights and now my only real complaint is their cordless nailers are trash while others only get better. Nothing keeping you from two batteries. I like Makita drills and saws, everything else I could take it or leave it.
Shawn Chambers
I’m not a professional contractor. So making sure that I have all-day batteries in my drill/driver isn’t really an issue for me. I went with DeWalt as they had a line-up that is just shy of Millwaukee’s professional tools, yet seems to go further into the consumer line of tools. (i.e…. they had 2 string trimmers that both were half the price of Milwaukee’s when I needed to buy one).
kg
I’ve been slowly adding M18 and M12 as needed and been quite happy with each to far. If anything, I wish they’d fill in some of the missing tools faster (looking at you track saw) though I’m encouraged to see the router and 12″ miter finally brought to market. I appreciate the “everything fits” design for the flexibility to make conscious trade offs either when needed or when it just doesn’t matter.
There’s one thing in the M18 system that doesn’t seem straightforward to me.
6.0Ah – High Output – 5.46″ x 3.30″ x 3.22″ – 2.30 lbs
8.0Ah – High Output – 5.46″ x 3.30″ x 3.22″ – 2.33 lbs
With nearly identical physical dimensions and output, is there any rational reason to buy (or make) the 6ah HO over the 8ah HO, with its longer runtime, other than price?
(Lifted the cell setup from a past TG post), it seems like the only difference is the ah/density of the cells used.
6.0Ah: 10 x 3.0Ah cells in 5×2 series-parallel, 21700
8.0Ah: 10 x 4.0Ah cells in 5×2 series-parallel, 21700
Doug N
The 6.0 was released simultaneously with the 12.0 and both were described as providing the same power to the highest current draw tools. The 8.0 was released later and doesn’t output quite as much power as the other two, although it may not be noticeable in most applications.
Big Richard
Doug, that is not correct. The 8.0 and 12.0 use the exact same cells (10 Samsung 40Ts and 15 Samsung 40Ts, respectively). The 6.0 uses 10 Samsung 30Ts. Both are 21700 cells rated at 35 amps continuous discharge. They will all perform essentially the same. The difference is price. Batteries using the 40Ts tend to be more expensive.
Oflannabhra
Makita’s XGT gets even more confusing, with reports that there will be 64V batteries as well.
http://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/15423-makita-behind-on-batteries/page/2/
James
I think initial indications is that this is not XGT perse, but a separate yet to be released platform. It will presumably incorporate much of the technology associated with XGT though.
Curt
I work in a lead and zinc mine in Alaska. The slurry gets on the floor very often.
At this job if a battery tool lasts one year it’s way beyond expectations. While
walking through a module one day I saw a little yellow buried in the slurry. I
dug it out and it was a 1/2 inch impact. Older model, as it had the old battery.
This thing was packed with lead and zinc concentrate. I pressure washed it and
let it dry. I have been using this Dewalt tool for about three years now with no problems. This is why I like Dewalt. They last like I don’t know how.
Skye A Cohen
Some of the brushed tools were like that but brushless use too many electronics for that kind of longevity, the spin faster and hit harder though, performance is so much better that they’re worth it but it’s definitely true that older brushed tools last longer
Martin
I am wondering if theres any word on Dewalt coming out with a new compact 20 volt compact vaccum cleaner
Martin
Like the one Milwaukee has.
David
I DIY. I’ve had a cordless drill since 1984 for work in high school. Back then it was makita nicd. That’s the only cordless tool I ever had or needed (I thought). I bought a corded replacement in about 2000 – a ten pound dewalt whose original nimh died in about 2009 and I bought Li replacements which still work fine to this day. It’ll do anything. Then I started replacing outlets and switches in my house and got blisters using hand tools day one. I started with the lightest, smallest, cheapest drill I could buy which is the 12 brushed Milwaukee for $100 with two batteries and a charger and a bag. That was my gateway tool. Next is the 12v fuel hakzall. Then finally a brushless drill/impact driver combo, oscillating tool, and circular saw. The oscillating tool will go through every battery I have in maybe two hours. Everything else I’ve never run out of a single charge. Perfect homeowner DIY.
Jp
Metabo hpt 10″ table saw is one of a kind as well as its astonishing farming nailer. Unlike Dewalts framing nailer it is not a flywheel style and uses compression and really sinks nails in anything (including LVL beams). I did see something showing Milwaukee has a framing nailer coming out that looks pretty impressive as well. I’ll be curious to test it out.
As of now though the power of my Metabo hpt line seems to outperform my colleagues lines of competitor tools.
Doug N
The 8.0 and 12.0 batteries use the same 40T cells, but that doesn’t mean the overall batteries perform the same. Since there are 15 cells in the larger pack, each cell outputs fewer amps than the smaller packs. Which is why the 6.0 high output batteries use Samsung 30T cells instead. The 30T cells outperform the 40T at high currents, at the expense of run time.
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
Big Richard
The 6.0 batteries use Samsung 30T cells because the 30Ts are 3000mAh cells. Not because they “outperform the 40T”. And the 40Ts are 4000mAh, which is why they are used in the 8.0 and 12.0.
Jp
The new adapters they make to use any battery with any tool are pretty helpful, you can get just about anything, Dewalt battery on Milwaukee tools, porter cable battery on makita tools etc. Just about anything you can think of within the same perimeters.
https://youtu.be/MMssklzoBAk
CountyCork
Bosch may not have the the diversity of tools as other brands but to me there newest batteries are hands down the best built. I love that they are proud to show a full breakdown of their batteries and how they are put together. The precision and engineering is a pleasure to see openly. I think they advertise best build battery platform on the planet. I agree and there current 8.0 is a beast and I believe a 12 is coming this year.
Kp
The bosch battery is well designed, inside and outside, not bulky. The Bosch makes all the tools I ever need, 230V + 18V and more.
Hopefully bosch will keep the current line and not waste money on tools that no one really needs. They can still make better tools and listen
24/18V bosch user since 2000.
Robert Adkins
I just don’t care for large, heavy, expensive, high capacity batteries. I rather have 2 5ah batteries than a 10ah battery. It’s not that big of a deal to swap batteries when they get low. Real battery eaters like lawnmowers, chain saws, leaf blowers, and weed trimmers could have ports for 2 batteries, as some already have. If a 5ah battery dies or is lost, it’s not a disaster. If I owned a 48v, 60v, 0r 80v battery and it went out, it would ruin my whole cordless experience. My favorite batteries are DeWalt compact 3ah. I’m hearing talk about a compact 5ah battery, which would be perfect for my weed eater and 7-1/4 saw. 5ah is my limit, any larger is too expensive for consummables.
Big Richard
The Dewalt 6Ah DCB206s can be found at a reasonable price of $130 for a 2-pk (a little over $10/Ah), or even less on eBay. It is a bit physically larger than the 5Ah DCB205, but its higher discharge 21700 cells really make a difference in high demand tools like a grinder, recip/circ/miter saw, or any OPE vs the 205’s 18650 cells. For compact tools, drills/impacts, or lights/radios I’m with you that the 5Ah is the ideal size and bang for your buck.
Michael
Then look into bosche procore, they have compact batteries better than llot of the higher ah battery brands due to the use of bigger cells
Michael
My lawn mower is. Yardforce 120v dual port
Two 2.5ah batteries
Yields. 600WH and only 30 min recharge per battery.
chris w
I’m a huge makita fan, but they seems to be falling behind in a few departments they also lack marketing where I’m at in florida its hard to even find makita tools unless its whatever hone depot might have which is not much. now I’m looking forward to the xgt line but I’m not paying around 400 bucks for an impact driver kit.
philip s john
The article could not be more wrong about volts dont matter anymore.
Milwaukee spuwed this theory when they came out with 9 amph battery and dewalt came out with flexvolt. Have you really pushed HO Milwaukee compared to 60v dewalt. If you had… you would know the voltage plus being brushless and with 2x batteries configuration is where tools are heading. It’s the only direction to go. Bigger and better. Except Milwaukee keep building more 18v tools that cant take heat loads.
fred
I agree, based on my own (admittedly tiny sample) anecdotal experience. When pushed even a little bit I found the Milwaukee 9 inch cutoff saw to be woefully inadequate – overheating 12Ah batteries after only a few cuts. The tool I bought was bundled with 2 batteries and they both overheated after only cutting a dozen or so pavers.
I think Milwaukee needs to work on a better solution – probably admit that they can’t do everything at 18V – and stop building 18V tools that really need their MX platform. Alternatively they could go the X2 route on some tools that would benefit from 36V.
They seem to be an innovative company, trying to meet many specialized and varied trade needs – but if they start getting the reputation for building tools that wimp-out they will soon ruin their slogan: “nothing but heavy duty” and see their market share erode.
Stuart
Volts do matter, but more isn’t always better.
You have to look at contexts and specifics.
Greenworks has a 24V drill that is out-matched by every single 2-speed drill I have ever used and could presently find in any name-brand catalog.
Dewalt urged 60V Max superiority, and then launched 20V Max tools that fall in the grey area between 20V and 60V Max.
My point is that you cannot automatically point to higher voltage tools and declare them better.
But, looking at Bosch’s new track saw, there’s a reason the saw blade size is smaller. If it were a 36V tool, it’d probably better match the size of their corded tool.
philip s john
Yes. Volts for the small hand tools we know and like… m18 20v max makita 18v perform good enough the same …and will be the the same for a while until nex gen tech is out. No upgrade is really needed here. Plus it’s backed up with bigger bats from HD. If any new teck comes out… it will have to work with current tools already purchased. 18v is mainly saturated in terms of… my hand drill is powerful enough… my strength cant handle more in a hand tool… even with safety stop or bind control. But drills are getting huge…and they up the voltage.
But innovation for HD bigger tools… putting all our big bats to work is where we should look.
We already see it everywhere. In 2x configuration. Lawnmowers .multiple tool lines that are compatible voltage and some that arnt like makita. Makita is so willing to go big with 40v after saying they would not… even with no compatibility. 21700 cell also in mass production is suited for bigger tools and higher voltage.
All of this latest innovation is supported by higher voltage . Brushless helps the higher voltage as well. Sure not all need or want this big stuff. But I am completely cord /airline free. And I love my 60v tools for power and runtime all while never overheating the battery. I am willing to bet Milwaukee has a new voltage line on the way. Between m18 and mx. Other than 18v lines…. more volts is the most important part… until we have graphene working.
Chrisk1970
I am very invested in Dewalt 20v and Flexvolt and use the flex volts in all of my outdoor tools, vacuum, tire inflator etc, the Metabo HPT lime up is as you said along similar paths and the tools are really high quality as well.
joseph
I think the Milwaukee way or Makita X2 are the best options followed by Dewalt being one way compatible. To me, if your batteries are not compatible across all the tools then its really two different platforms like M12 and M18.
I would like to have as few battery platforms as possible. If that is not feasible then I will look at best in class for the possible tools because if I’m going to be inconvenienced then I will use one I like.
Perry
Unfortunately the only tool access i have locally is Lowe’s, and they are dropping metabo and bosch for Flex. I’m really not interested in flex.
I’ve been in makita for close to 20 years, but I’m looking for a replacement to transition into as they put more emphasis on xgt. My first replacement needs to be my cordless sliding miter saw, so I may just go to kobalt
Tucker
As someone who has been happy with Makita 18v since getting their first compact LXTdrill back in 2007 and it still working (one of the original batters just bit the dust) their new 40v line is disappointing. If it was 18/40v with some backwards compatibility that would have been fine. Even if they eventually made higher capacity 40v batteries which were not guaranteed to physically fit all tools. At least it wiuld be something.
To be fair there were already some tools which I own which do not work with their newer 5Ah batteries since they don’t have the extra pin/star or whatever they call that today.
I’ve never had a problem with the X2 as a concept. Most of those tools are already large. For the OPE tools I have its not even noticeable.
Now I guess I am free to jump systems since I am forced to with Makita anyway.
I do have a growing number of M12 tools for lighter weight tools. Maybe it’s time to go M18 but I have always felt Makita were better for woodworking tools vs Milwaukee.
Serendipity
My original Makita impactor and drill, original as in first gen purchased new about fifteen years ago, work perfectly fine with the new batteries. You have to cut the tab of the tool, takes about five seconds with a utility knife.
MFC
Milwaukee is definitely the most straightforward with batteries, but their high power tools struggle with heat and shut off before the battery is fully used.
In my opinion DeWalt is the best with it’s 20v/60v battery system. It’s not complicated and it does what you want it to: Power heavy tools for demanding tasks without thermal overload.
Milwaukee has way better marketing and their Pack-out and m12 line is superior to DeWalt’s tough system 2.0 and 12v max platform (though DeWalt is trying to catch up).
You can’t really go wrong with either nowadays but I would lean toward Milwaukee for special applications and DeWalt for most everything else.
Kane
> Milwaukee … m12 line is superior to DeWalt’s … 12v max platform …
No argument here, as Milwaukee has a much wider lineup, not to mention many are more capable. Heck, even some of Skil’s 12v tools are more capable than DeWalt’s — 1/2″ chuck on the drills and faster/longer stroke on the reciprocating saw — and they also have a wider 12v lineup. One-battery-only is also less likely with DeWalt 12v, as it doesn’t appear that they (currently) offer an oscillating tool, jigsaw or circular saw.
MM
I’ll second M12 being superior to Dewalt’s 12V line. I really like how many of the M12 batteries fit completely inside the tool rather than having a rectangular brick at the base of the handle. For some tools it doesn’t matter but for for compact automotive tools that you have to reach into tight spots it’s a huge advantage. They also make a number of tools in their compact line that Dewalt doesn’t offer, like the die grinders, 90-degree impact driver, ratchets, etc. I have the big 20V max Dewalt die grinder, and it’s great, but it can’t fit where the M12 models can. Dewalt also has no answer to the ever-popular M12 Installation driver either. I love Dewalt, and most of my tools are 20V and Flexvolt, but when I needed a compact system I found M12 to be a much better match to my needs. I think the two lines complement each other very well with each one addressing the shortcomings of the other.
Paul
Here’s a makita installation driver that I had to create, don’t know why dewalt or makita don’t do one
https://imgur.com/gallery/UAohqjk
Meen Jaani
I got this bosh small drill and driver for $50 I posted in new Tools arrival this tools take the battery like a gun magazine Fromm the bottom the batteries I think are 1.5Ah but. See ms to be working strong for the house I think is great. I got it because it was the last one in the store at Lowe’s making room for Flex 24 line I see some yellow stickers on some others too… if Lowe’s or home depot is on your way to work or home stop by sometime you will find stuff in the clearance some times. Good stuff too like Milwaukee or Deswalt
philip s john
Milwaukee have lied to the HO tool customer. HO for small jobs is decent… but think about cost CAD vs performance. 12 amp
Bat 300. Super charger 200. 9in grinder kit 500. 9amp bat 250. Chainsaw kit 500. 9 in saw and 14 In saw will be even worse.Huge cost for worst in class at HO
New dewalt 12v has potential to be just as good… if not better. DEPENDING ON IF DEWALT AIMS AT MECHANIC TOOLS to the level as Milwaukee
Jared
Inevitably these debates get tied up with which brand you most prefer.
Just to concentrate on the two front-runners, I think Milwaukee has a slight edge over Dewalt – but I feel like that edge is temporary unless Milwaukee comes out with some yet unforeseen innovation.
The advantage of all battery compatibility is a big one – even though in practice putting a 2ah pack on a chainsaw might be disappointing. I have a single Flexvolt pack – and only one Flexvolt tool for that matter (incidentally, the chainsaw). I would love to be able to pop in some of my 4ah packs if I ran the Flexvolt pack dead, even if performance was reduced. Not as something to rely on, but as a way of finishing up a task if I ran low. It would help ease the expensive transition to Flexvolt.
BUT, with Power Detect, Dewalt is somewhat closing that loophole. If they released Power Detect first, they could have squashed Milwaukee easily. That way all batteries would be compatible no matter the voltage – yet still had 60v tools that could take advantage of the extra power. At the moment, there’s not enough Power Detect tools to make this argument. E.g. they would need to re-release all the Flexvolt as Power Detect (if we start seeing more Power Detect releases of existing Flexvolt tools – or dual releases – that might signal Flexvolt is on the way out).
My impression is that Milwaukee has a ceiling if they stick with 18v forever. They might not have reached it just yet, but its a lower ceiling that Dewalt’s 60v system and they will hit it eventually.
If there weren’t copyright issues, I expect the obvious move would be to release a “Power Detect”-like system so Milwaukee could raise the max performance level AND maintain the all-battery compatibility. That could really mess up Dewalt’s superiority claims.
If Milwaukee is instead forced to someday release another, separate battery system – yuck.
Stuart
Maybe, but everything used to be on more even ground.
Now, there’s 18V vs 20V Max vs 36V vs 40V Max vs 24V Max vs 60V Max, and on top of all that there are batteries with different Li-ion cell form factors and configurations.
philip s john
They are. Milwaukee is already at the ceiling for hand power tools. And royaly screwing up HO with overheating even on small jobs.
Power detect cant match 60v for grinders and saws. High amp draw equipment. TO KNOW THIS ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS WATCH MILWAUKEE HO WITH A 12AMP BAT OVER HEAT. ITS BECAUSE ITS 18V. power detect and Its larger cell is mainly for people who dont want or need flexvolt .
philip s john
It’s not so bad with another Milwaukee voltage line. Makita has done it. Sure compatibility is awesome… more so with dewalt over Milwaukee HO. But putting compact HO 3 or 4 amph on a HO too is mostly usless. Dewalts HO amph batteries are just so amazing at keeping the worker working.
Milwaukee could do a 40v line… and 40 bat x2 configuration to be compatible with mx o a adapter. This would now match mx 80v.
Makita and dewalt have already established that there is a market it full swing at higher voltage. I think dewalt will take on MX too. There is a huge opportunity to do something better. One also has to wonder when we will see more 60v x2 configuration… and since so many dewalt 9amp batteries at 60v can take a beating… will we see a 60v x4 configuration snowblower
David S
I have had a ton of problems with the M18 batteries. I really love milwaukee but I’m not pleased with the 5amp batteries
philip s john
You should be good with a 5 on the everything that’s not HO. ON HO Milwaukees largest battery overheats like crazy. This is where brushless 60v kicks M18 HO ass to the curb.
Luckey Dodge
Hi,
Still waiting for a Cordless Carton Stapler………..Is anyone listening?
What ever happened to the Bostitch?
Luckey
fred
Bostitch seems to have stopped making it.
You can buy a Joseph Kilberg (made in Sweden). They have a few models – all pretty spendy :
https://www.stapleheadquarters.com/ItemForm.aspx?Item=A560B-FL
Luckey Dodge
Hi Fred,
Yes, that Sweden Model is spendy!
Maybe Ryobi will take notice and make a model.
Regards,
Luckey
lava
I don’t get the decidedly negative outlook on Makita, nor the “sky is falling” out look on the 18v line.
The 40v XGT will never be able to do what the 18v LXT tools can do – specifically make a small compact tool with a 2AH battery. And while it is impossible for XGT to make a foray into small compact tools, it is entirely possible for LXT to make foray into powerful x2 36v tools, hey in fact they already have. So there seems to me to be a strong use case for the continued offering and development of 18v and 18v x2 tools, as well as 12v tools which, hey Makita is doing also. Seems to me a better approach than any of the other brands.
Stuart
Why can’t XGT offer smaller tools? Makita’s focus has always been on their 18V 10-cell batteries, and their 36V/40V Max 10-cell batteries are the same exact size.
If they can have a 36V XGT LED flashlight and a radio, there’s no reason they can’t also offer a compact drill, jig saw, sander, and other modern core tools.
Only a very small handful of their subcompact 18V tools are optimized for compact batteries, and you’re right that they can’t do this with 36V/40V Max.
I believe they plan to gradually replace much of the 18V lineup with the XGT lineup, except for some of the more value-oriented tools like their holiday season special-buy drill, impact, and combo kits. Why? Because that’s what I would do. Trying to maintain separate and incompatible 18V and 36V/40V Max systems is going to be a challenge for them, especially when there are competing tools.
Have you ever seen Makita’s 14.4V tools in US retail stores? Why not?
Do you think retailers are going to have the shelf space for similar or identically-spec’ed 18V and 36V/40V Max tools?
Look what happened with Dewalt and their 40V Max cordless outdoor power equipment lineup. They were good tools, and it was a good system, but they couldn’t split their focus on competing 40V Max and 60V Max FlexVolt offerings. Does anyone at Makita really believe 18V and XGT can co-exist? Either XGT will have limited selection compared to 18V (outside of highest demand offerings not possible with 18V), or there will be duplication of efforts, but that doesn’t seem likely either.
It’ll take time for things to fall into place.
Objectively, would I buy individual tools if I didn’t care about investing in a “system?” Yes. But would I invest in either 18V or XGT right now with current, future, and potential future needs in mind? No. I’d go with a different platform with assured compatibility, such as Dewalt 20V Max and FlexVolt, or delay any purchasing decisions for 6 months to a year to see what happens.
lava
I don’t think most people will be thinking about it the way you are. But that’s ok – as you say, you’ll watch and see.
Why can’t XGT offer smaller tools? You answered your own question. Because XGT can’t offer a 5 cell pack to go with a smaller tool. A sub-compact tool with an 18v 10 cell pack is no longer a sub-compact tool. Not saying you might not have a reason to put a bigger battery on a small drill, but if there is no 5 cell pack a sub-compact drill is really pointless.
Stuart
The sub-compact tools are a fringe part of the 18V system. They wouldn’t make product line-level decisions around these few offerings.
lava
“Have you ever seen Makita’s 14.4V tools in US retail stores? Why not?”
Your point? Makita can sell entire battery lines in other markets without offering them in the US? But 18v line is doomed – Or do you think its only doomed in the US?
Stuart
Sure, Makita offers a lot of tools that Makita USA does not make available to USA customers. Why do you think they won’t sell 14.4V here, in between 12V Max and 18V?
If I’m buying into a brand new product line, I’d want to buy into XGT or LXT, not both and have to deal with two separate and incompatible battery systems.
Too small a selection of everyday handheld tools and XGT will be weaker compared to compared to competitors. Too large a selection and it will take focus away from the 18V system.
They won’t be able to fully market both lines as full jobsite solutions.
So either the breadth of XGT will be limited, or the 18V system will slow down to let XGT lead.
They have a one-lane road and two cars that can’t drive next to each other.
Will they widen the road? Maybe. Maybe they can pull off the marketing for two 18V form factor cordless platforms.
Jared
I’m curious about this statement: “Seems to me a better approach than any of the other brands.”
What’s better about it?
I don’t mean that to come across as confrontational – but I’m not seeing it. Perhaps there’s something I’m missing.
XGT lets Makita compete with other brands’ high-power offerings, but is it more powerful? Doesn’t seem like it.
It would let Makita have physically smaller high-voltage batteries than others – but is this advantageous? e.g. the correct battery choice for something high-draw (say a tablesaw) is probably still not going to be the same battery you want hanging from an impact driver. The other brands will still have even smaller battery options – just not high voltage ones. Perhaps Makita has some innovation in mind to capitalize on high-voltage in a compact battery size?
You might argue “Yeah, but LXT still exists, so Makita has compact batteries too!” Sure, but without any of the cross-compatibility Milwaukee, Dewalt or Metabo HPT offer.
It just seems like Makita can do everything their competitors can – but only by offering two distinct battery platforms.
Brody
I just wish more tools were designed with blower motors for the battery, or internal routing of the tools cooling fan for the battery. It would impact run time partially but also benefit it in the long run, keeping the battery cooler while under use and decrease the amount of time it needs to cool down before charging again.
Makita seems capable of this but I don’t know of any tools that utilize their cooling ports on the battery. Like i’d love a 18v setup, that had either a parallelize/serialize setup like some of the foreign batteries and Metabo, with cooling ports, optional rubber over mold, and an internal low voltage cutt-off switch. Would be the most useful battery for things outside of tools, but also functional for tools that demand 18v or 36v rails, and can be expanded accordingly to large 40 cell counts.
Joshua Smart
Great article.
This metabo hpt, vs metabo vs hikoki vs hitachi stuff is pretty confusing especially between countries (me being in Australia).
Keep up the great work.