When you try something new, whether it’s woodworking, welding, or trying to grow vegetable plants from seed, there’s a learning curve.
As discussed previously, I’m trying to grow some vegetables this year, from seed. It’s been an interesting process thus far.
Advertisement
I did plenty of background research. I watched YouTube videos. I came up with a plan.
I thought I knew what I was doing, then things went south a bit, at least for some of my seedlings. I took corrective actions, and things looked to be getting better. Now, some of those seedlings’ leaves are turning black again.
I’m not ready to throw my hands up in defeat just yet. These seedlings will likely be extras, sacrificed to animal pests, or used for learning opportunities, but I’d still like to get to the bottom of why.
With some jalapeno seedlings, the younger leaves went black and the plants exhibited stunted growth. This didn’t affect all of my hot pepper seedlings, just some of them. Adding nutrients in the form of water-soluble plant food seemed to fix things. Their color improved – new growth was greener in contrast to younger leaves that were yellow or blackened – and I believed that adding nutrients was the fix.
But now some of the leaves are turning black again…
Internet research says that maybe they’re “sunburnt,” and that this can happen in response to LED grow lights indoors. Or, it could be a nutrient deficiency. Maybe they’re being over-watered?
Advertisement
Some of my seedlings are affected. Other batches are not. The only difference I can tell is that different seed starting mixed was used, with seedlings in Espoma or Burpee starting mix seemingly worse for wear.
It’s weird. There are no answers. Internet searches don’t offer any helpful advice.
I’m going to conclude that it’s still a nutrient deficiency. When I pot-up (the process of upgrading a seedling’s container size), I use a light potting mix and add in earthworm castings, which is mild organic matter that provides a slow but steady source of nutrients.
I have a lot of experimentation to do, and this will hopefully serve as optimizations for seed-starting adventures next year. It’ll be a lot easier now that I know what to focus on, and with a small focus in mind, rather than the race I’ve been on to grow seedlings large enough for transplant outside.
Sure, I could have bought mature plants at the nursery, and avoided the expense and hassle of trying to do this all myself. But, while there are 34 types of tomato plants at the local greenhouse, the selection of hot peppers is slimmer. There are far fewer cucumber varieties – maybe 3. While hot pepper seedlings have monopolized my attention, due to the very lengthy indoors grow time they require, my focus is more on cucumbers, specifically smaller sized that are ideal for pickling.
There were some complaints that I – please forgive the language – half-assed my seed-starting experiment, and I did. But, upon seeing some of the results, and seeing what’s happening here, that’s how a hypothesis is formed, and a more effective one than if I had practiced “proper” experimentation at the start. Now we know what to test for, we know what the controls should be, and what variables to change.
This is how different projects, skills, or hobbies go. You might set out to build dovetails as part of a woodworking project, you might try your hand at precision inlays, or maybe you’re trying to perfect drywall prep or painting skills.
No matter how much you read, no matter how much you think you know, it’s not until you put chisel to wood, spackle to wall, paint to metal, seed to soil, and so forth that you can truly learn a process.
Every plant is different, every indoors seed-starting environment is different. Still, I thought that I armed myself with all the background research and information needed to do a great job at growing seedlings strong enough to be planted outdoors. I could be happy where I am and move on, but sorting all this out will hopefully pay off in my future vegetable-growing efforts.
It might sound odd to compare seed-starting to woodworking joinery, drywall work, or other such things. Well, some woods respond differently to how you cut or shape them. There are optimized geometries, whether you’re working with softwoods or hardwoods. What’s a good consistency for drywall mud?
For a lot of things, you try, receive feedback from the work or outside opinion even, and try again.
With respect to my seedlings, until someone steers me in a different direction, I’m assuming that the starting mix lacks sufficient nutrients, and that once-a-week water-soluble plant food just isn’t cutting it.
For my woodworking dovetails, that’s not a quite the same – cutting accuracy and sowing seeds is not exactly congruent. Well, how moist is too moist when it comes to watering plants or prepping starter mix?
I’ve been very much a “learn, learn some more, keep learning, then try” kind of person, but seem to have been learning a lot more from “do, observe, do again” types of practices.
I feel a bit embarrassed at getting “the basics” wrong, and for not understanding what’s going on with some of my plants. But, I also do find comfort in watching some of the earlier videos of some of the hot pepper and gardening YouTubers. There’s one whose advice I find particularly helpful, and it’s clear that their current practices evolved from their older recommendations. It’s good to know that everyone stands to learn new things from time to time – nobody gets things perfect right at the get-go.
Background research is no substitute for first-hand experience. Still, you also cannot substitute hands-on experience for background research. Discussing my veggie garden plans again, it was perhaps crucial for me to have read that cucumber plants do not like their roots disturbed, which is why I started them indoors in 4″ pots. Here, background researched saved me time and effort, and prevented me from making beginner blunders.
I didn’t intend to spend so much time on gardening and the like, but with everyone home, there’s a need for something away from my computer, away from my workspace, and that doesn’t involve power tools or other such instruments that I requires distraction-free attention during daylight hours. Plus, I’m looking forward to the process – I never expected myself to be this excited about growing my own vegetables, but I am.
I’m doing some things right and making some mistakes, and it’s okay. (This is more self-convincing than anything else.)
For a more tool-related mention of the day: Today’s day was made more enjoyable by the use of Makita’s cordless track saw. Buy Now: via Amazon, via Acme Tools, via Tool Nut (promo ends 5/15/20). I received a test sample a while ago (thank you Makita USA!), and I love using it. I still prefer my corded Festool (purchased at retail) for a lot of things, but the Makita’s cordless functionality is very convenience if I’m working outside. The Festool tops the Makita when it comes to dust collection convenience though.
I also used a Milwaukee multi-bit screwdriver, Knipex Pliers Wrench, Channellock adjustable wrench, Dewalt utility knife, Milwaukee scissors, Milwaukee cordless vacuum, and a generic hex key that came with my new hose reel.
Because of the analogy that popped into my head earlier in the post, I’m going to aim to practice my hand dovetails this week.
Greg
OMG
Stuart
Hey, it’s not the most interesting thing I did today, but it’s part of the saga. Everything will fit together, eventually.
There are a couple of small projects related to all this, but those aren’t ready yet.
There are a couple of tool posts related to all this, but those aren’t ready yet.
There are a few related reviews, but those aren’t ready yet.
My allergies are bogging me down, and so I went for an easy topic that was on my mind.
My first uninterrupted time at the computer today started an hour ago, and all this time has been spent on tedious server updates and certificate installations.
John804
For what it’s worth, I’m really enjoying your garden updates. I’m making a similar attempt, but with a greatly increased failure rate. Best of luck with the rest of the project, and I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of the posts. Thanks, as always, for running such a great site.
Maplehouse
Hey there, it’s my opinion that you are perhaps overthinking things. I planted hot chilli peppers this year, the first time from seed to crazy growth, without lights and fertilizer. It’s not my first time gardening but a first from seed.
I fertilized only after they were temp. acclimated for outside. Fertilizer is good for growth but not necessarily for “fruit”… less means more. Now my plants are way bigger and bushier than ever imagined and the yield is WAY more then anticipated! As they ripen, they’re picked and frozen whole. When my harvest is completed, they will be smoked and dried. Great for sauces in the winter.
Best of luck,
Greetings from Germany!?
Dean
Where are you growing your seedlings? Indoor/outdoor? What climate?
This colouration usually means the plants are too cold. You don’t need to start feeding pepper plants until they are about 4-6 inches tall. They have sufficient nutrients in the seed and soil for the initial growth.
I would recommend keeping pepper in a medium size pot, around 20-25 cm dia. This keeps the rootball tight and stresses the plant to produce fruit. As the fruit ripen, harvest and cut them off. This allows the plant to use its energy in producing more fruit.
Stuart
Thanks! Since there are two trays affected, I’ll place one under less intense light and see what happens.
Indoors, ~70° to 72°F.
The nutrients started because the seedlings were stuck and not growing their first true leaves. Once the initial energy was exhausted, there was nothing left. These are maybe 2″ tall, and upon last inspection there’s minimal root growth.
Perhaps there are several factors leading to what’s going in with these plants.
Flotsam
i like that you now have a control group
Jp
I am good with peppers here in FL. But I recommend taking pictures, and sending them to your local Ag cooperative extension. They may also have a master gardener.
Tim D.
Yep, good advice. You can also ask a question on https://ask.extension.org/ask.
I just had my local extension office assist me with identifying and treating a new blueberry bush with some fungal spots showing up.
Frank D
Indoor with LEDs? Tallest parts of the plants only?
Sun burn.
Have to increase the height on the lamp (s) and/or reduce the time.
We have never done additional or special feeding.
Brandon
The first or second set of leaves on my pepper seedlings tend to turn a shade of purple. A brief scan around led me to believe it was the overly bright lighting I’m using, but that they’d grow out of it. So far so good – they are all still growing and appear very healthy minus the first set of leaves turning purple on a lot of them.
I’d let ’em tough it or move some of them to a lower light area rather than mess with fertilizer, myself. In your shoes, I’d rather move some seedlings to larger pots rather than try to add more fertilizer. The soil should be providing that for you, especially at smaller sizes. Otherwise, if you are going to be relying on liquid fertilizer, why not just go hydroponic and be able to used properly balanced nutrient solution for the intended stage of growth of the plant.
Stuart
I moved two affected seedlings earlier, and they seem to be doing well in larger pots, but I also added worm castings to those posts, providing slow but present nutrients.
I need to watch more carefully, but when the younger leaves turned black, these seedlings just sat there with zero growth above or below the surface. With an abundance of larger seedlings, I might just let these hang out, and see what happens, but my feeling is that they’ll remain at this size.
I’ve been reading up on Kratky method hydroponics, which has minimal needs, but is more complicated for fruiting plants (compared to say leafy greens). I figured that I have my hands full trying to learn enough as it is.
I started different seedlings at the same time, and these are among the only ones to develop dark leaf colorations. When they were green, they were growing, when blackish, stunted. I figure it has to be related. The lights could be an issue, but other seedlings of the same batch are doing just fine, and are even closer due to being larger.
The seedling containers get liquid fertilizer. 4″ pots have worm castings and a different mix. When they go outside, they get granulated fertilizer or other amendments (kelp meal, bone meal, Sul-Po-Mag or epsom salts) plus potting mix.
Brandon
Sounds good to me!
The Kratky or DWC (Deep Water Culture) are good places to start for hydro for sure. I wouldn’t recommend flowering crops in them, myself, but people still do. Lettuce and most herbs work very well in them. My current setup I switched over to a mix between drip and ebb/flow, and I’m much happier with the control I have, but they all have ups and downs. I do think you’d appreciate hydro, as you have a lot more control over things such as nutrient compositions. Maybe give it a go in the fall or winter if you enjoy the spring/summer gardening. If you plan appropriately, you can start some very healthy seedlings in either rapid rooters or rockwool cubes and then drop them in the ground come spring, too. I’ve probably given out about 150 seedlings between various herbs and peppers to family members this year and they seem to be doing very well minus some cat fatalities and some frost fatalities.
Just some food for thought – I don’t mean to deter you from working with soil! I’m cursed with some very determined deer and rainy weather over here in suburban Pittsburgh, so I try to keep everything indoors and hydro works well for me. Plus, the OCD side of me tends to look at my soil as a mass of unknown nutrient levels… which are probably fine… but I don’t like to ‘dose’ things without being able to easily test the levels afterwards.
I think you’ll have plenty of healthy peppers based off your pictures. Hopefully they grow in time to produce some fruits for you. Enjoy!
Stacey Jones
Likely too much water & fertilizer. Think about where the plant thrives… In Mexico it’s hot and I doubt their soil is better than what you have in that pot, but they still probably don’t fertilize…
Stuart
I considered that, and have been light and infrequent with bottom-watering. These aren’t in soil, they’re in seedling mix which has no nutrients at all except what’s added. It’s basically a sponge.
JR
Wow, you are over thinking this. Unless you are a grower and need to maximize your profit on each seed planted, you just need to sow some seeds, wait for the successful ones and cull the rest. The two of us here get a full season of jalapenos from one plant.
Stuart
Possibly, but a shorter growing season + stunted growth compared to my other seedlings would mean a poor start at the least.
With my basil, seeds sown 3 weeks later and given more attention to nutrition are now at least a week larger than earlier seedlings.
lc
Contrary to your response to the above OMG comment it seems to me that you are finding out that gardening is in fact NOT ‘easy’ and actually VERY ‘interesting’. And by interesting I mean ‘challenging, frustrating, and sometimes heartbreaking’. I find new mistakes to make every year.
I don’t know about LED grow light burn because I grow all of my seedlings under T12 fluorescent shop lights but I had this problem last year and I did two things wrong. 1. I messed up my seed starting mix microbiome by sterilizing it before planting (I mistook some beneficial fungus for the cause of my okra dampening off the previous year and there’s a lot of bad advice in favor of this on the internet but DON’T DO IT! It’s a TERRIBLE IDEA). 2. I began hardening off my already weakened peppers on a slightly chilly day. Maybe stronger ones would have been fine but these were already in trouble.
This year I used the same starter mix unsterilized and added in worm castings and Dr. Earth Root Zone fertilizer. The second provides beneficial microbes and fungus that help root development and nutritient absorbtion. You only need a tiny bit- a tablespoon per quart. It’s amazing stuff and I’m not being paid to say that. And when I pot them up I use the same starter mix, not potting soil, because the looseness of the mix makes it easy for the roots to spread. I also give all my seedlings extremely diluted liquid fertilizer once per week- less than half of what you’d give a houseplant. (Others are correct that too much fertilizer is a bad thing). And this year my peppers and all my other plants are big and beautiful.
I did this because when I pulled the affected peppers out of their pots I noticed they had a very underdeveloped root system. It doesn’t matter how much fertilizer you are applying if the plant has no means to absorb it. There’s no coming back from this unfortunately- the plants survived but grew very slowly and produced very little. My eggplants were a total loss too. The tomatoes were fine but they always are. So have a look at your root systems when you repot- maybe it will provide some clues.
Stuart
It is, but perhaps not interesting enough for our tool-focused audience.
I will likely have materials left over after seed-starting season is over, and will likely experiment in a very controlled manner to get a leg-up on next year’s season. Hot peppers need 6-10 weeks of indoors growth, and super hots are said to be even more challenging and temperamental. Next year I might even try growing tomatoes from seed.
I can see why a lot of online articles and videos recommend sterilizing seed-starting mix. From what I’ve seen, the so-called beneficial fungi don’t really help, or at least the seed starting mix with fungi but no organic nutrients led to stunted growth while presumably sterile compost lead to continued and dramatically faster growth.
Right now I seem to have fruit flies or more likely fungus gnats in my seedling area, probably from the transplant potting mix I used when potting-up to 4″ containers. Sterilization of seed-starting mix could avoid that. My starting mixes were decent, but I’ve heard of some brands being particularly notorious when it comes to fungus gnats. I opted not to sterilize anything, thinking I wanted to see what the beneficial fungi did, and I don’t regret the decision. The problem now is with a different mix anyway.
I understand that too much fertilizer can be worse than too little. I used a dilute seedling-friendly product to start, and am now using a general product with seedling-friendly dilution and frequency (or rather infrequency).
I read that the yellow leaves or blackened leaves could be from the seedlings being root-bound, and transplanted a couple, and it was obvious they were as far undeveloped as the rest of the plant. Basically, slow growth above and below the surface.
On the plants that were sown in richer starting mix and not fertilized at all before being potted-up, I now have leaves 2X as large as the height of the affected seedlings shown here.
This post was partly prompted by the fact that I can only guess as to what’s going on. There’s plenty of advice on the internet, but nothing I found was helpful in characterizing what’s going on here. I’m lucky that these results only reflect a small part of my efforts, and will persist in my explorations.
I also found parallels to woodworking and other ventures, where no amount of background reading or looking things up on the internet can substitute for just giving things a try.
I’ll check out that product for next year – thanks! What I’ve found is that, except for the seed starting mix with compost, none of the other mixes I tried had any nutrients. If all the conditions are the same – lighting, watering, and so forth, and one plant ends up large and thriving, and another small and with blackened leaves, I can only point my finger at the available nutrients or lack thereof. I learned enough to give my cucumbers a better start than otherwise, and will use this info next year as well when I seek to start other veggies such as tomatoes and even okra maybe.
Branden H
Peppers like HEAT. From the photo I would agree with other posters that say it’s mild cold stress. Undue purpling is almost exclusively caused by this in plants. The slow or complete lack of growth can be also explained by this. Plants will usually continue growing visibly through moderate nutrient deficiency, even if slowed. The good news is that as long as you can keep them alive through this you can expect a better harvest from them later in the season.
Steve
I’ve grown lots of hot pepper plants in the past. It’s either too cool or too much light. Once you get them into the ground they’ll be fine. They’re generally easy to grow, like with all peppers don’t over water.
Late Night
Nothing looks wrong from the photo above and agree the color could be from the cold or genetics. Also agree with be light in fertilizer, as in half recommend application. It does look like a macro nutrient deficiency. I find burn from lights or sun creates bleached blonde patches. Just let them grow!
GEORGE MICHENER
if you’re fertilizing small plants, go with plont-tone or root tone oeganic fertilizer. They have all natural ingredients, so you tend to get more or the macro-nutrients and minerals…dont over do it!. I found a long time ago that the best info for starting veggies-or anything else-can be had by going to the forums for pot growers….those guys know everything. Even the light spectrums and amounts that are optimum for seed starting,seedling growing…alll the way down to bringing plants in when threatened by winter weather so they can keep producing into the winter. That part is all about not letting the plant see too much red spectrum in the winter,so as not to “send them to seed”. The opposite often works when starting. You want to mimick the sun for the season that makes the plant do what YOU want it to do. The sun rays angle changes which spectrum gets to plants and signals them to start,fruit,stop, seed etc etc etc. Again all this from potheads-lol. Good luck and keep us posted.
GEORGE MICHENER
thats Plant-tone-sorry
Uncle Ralph
My wife is a grower of many things, and not really being there to discuss it back and forth in great detail, she thinks it could be a phosphorus deficiency, but she also thinks that if it’s actually a purplish tint to the leaves, it’s not all that abnormal for hot peppers. If they seem to respond well to a little extra fertilizer, you might consider doing that once a week or so, if that’s the boost they need.
CaveSAR
According to my wife, retired Horticultural Educator, Master Gardener – soil temperature is too cool. Use a grow mat to warm the soil. Also the phosphorus or potasium could be low.
Apparently the Tompkins County (NY) grow line has gotten a number of calls and e-mails about this issue. Even some of our hot peppers were showing the same issue.
Barks
More water.
Chris
The leaves look a little purple to me, which I always thought was a phosphorus difficiency. I had the same issue with my Jalapeno plants indoors, but they’ve since recovered after repotting and putting into natural sunlight with nutrients. So it is hard to say what fixed it.
DaveinMD
Growing your own food makes you really appreciate the struggle that those before us really had to go through to feed the family.
We started out seedlings as well, went great, transported outside too soon, got cold and fought to keep them alive.
Ended up replanting almost everything again.
Good times.
Matt J.
As a fellow newbie gardener, I’m right there with you! Our peppers have had yellowing and leaf curl, but some liberal applications of liquid 3-1-1 plant food seem to have fixed it for us. Granted, we are a bit further ahead here in SC (everything has been in rasied beds for about a month), but it seems like every day there’s a new problem with some plant or another. Some broccoli went to flower, our watermelon isn’t growing, our squash it hurting, something is eating our cabbage…but I’m enjoying the challenge and climbing the learning curve…hope you are too!
Not sure what youtube channels you’re watching, but would love to know! We’ve gotten lots of good info from MI Gardener and Roots and Refuge Farm
John
Water them when the lights are going to be off for a few hours if they’re indoors, or in the evening if they are outside. Water droplets on the leaves with an intense light source can focus the light onto the leaves and cause them to “sunburn”
Inked Gardener
Could it be that in the “mix” you just had some dark foliage plants. They start of green and begin to change. Your pictures look like every dark foliage seedling we’ve ever grown. And, thats getting into the 1000’s.
Cliff
Came across your posts, I have grown peppers from seeds last 5 years, each year I am challenged with same issue, purple leaves, then turn yellow. If I can get them in the ground/garden they recover. Some however succumb, poor root development. I don’t think it is the lighting, or temperature because all other seedlings (broccoli, cabbage, tomatoes, zinnias) get the same treatment, occasionally tomatoes have problems but improve once planted outside. i have tried fertilizer which seems to help a little. I tested pH of my professional ProMix potting soil and found it was 4.5! Wow. They mix lime with it but it has to be moist for awhile for the lime to raise the pH. This would explain why planting outside helps plants recover as my garden pH is 7.0. I have been using ProMix right out of the bale, its dry, I moisten it, then transplant seedlings immediately in 3″ pots. I will try something different this year. HIgh peat content potting mix will have a low pH.