A reader asked a valid question the other day. In a comment to our post about How Cordless Power Tool Brands Started 2020, Popgun42 wrote:
I have Milwaukee M12 tools and I really like them. But with 18 and 20 volt getting smaller what will happen to the 12 volt.
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In my opinion, nothing will happen to Milwaukee’s M12 lineup.
It’s a valid supposition. Quite a few brands have neglected their 12V-class cordless platforms over the years. With 18V-class cordless power tools so popular and even widely preferred, why put any emphasis into poorer-selling 12V-class tools that aren’t appreciably smaller?
But that’s the thing – Milwaukee’s M12 cordless power tool system is so broadly developed and mature that there isn’t a lot overlap with M18 tools.
We talked about this a couple of months ago, in my One of the Design Philosophies Behind Milwaukee M12 Cordless Power Tools post.
M12 is about Portable Productivity, designed to speed up manual processes.
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You’re not going to find a lot of M12 cordless power tools in the M18 platform. Consider the M12 right angle die grinder. It’s compact, lightweight, and tries to mirror the size and performance of air-powered tools. In the M18 system, such a tool would be larger and heavier, and likely less ergonomic and comfortable to use.
Yes, there’s some overlap when it comes to cordless drills, drivers, and other core tools, but there’s not as much overlap for the M12 platform to give much ground to the M18 platform.
If Milwaukee’s M12 system only featured a couple of core tools and few specialty tools, then there might be a risk. But if you consider the breadth of the system, sure some tools could be redeveloped into M18 tools, but at great compromise.
A year and a half ago, a reader asked for advice on cordless caulk guns, as he couldn’t decide between the Milwaukee M12 model and Dewalt’s 20V Max. There’s also an M18 model with more power, but he was shopping based on the cordless systems he already bought into.
If you’re looking to replace a manual caulk gun, the Milwaukee M12 model provides matching power and in a compact size. If you need more power, you can step up to M18, but there’s also a cost to do so, monetary and in regard to size and weight. There’s not much that can be done to make that M18 size smaller, and so there’s a place on the shelf for M12 and M18 models.
Milwaukee has expanded their M12 cordless system over the years, and because of this there are tools to suit all kinds of user needs. For a lot of users, even those with large M18 or 18V-class cordless power tool kits, there are still needs that are better met by M12 tools. That is why the line will continue to grow and succeed.
Here’s a link to our Milwaukee M12 post archive (sorry, feel free to skip the expired deal links). There are so many tools that make sense for M12 but not for M18. For instance:
- Milwaukee M12 soldering iron (review)
- Milwaukee M12 Fuel cut-off tool
- Milwaukee M12 Fuel right angle die grinder
- Milwaukee M12 Fuel installation drill/driver
- Milwaukee M12 cordless torque wrench
- Milwaukee M12 cordless rivet tool
Also keep in mind that M12 heated jackets fit better with M12 batteries (but can be equipped with M18 if desired), and the worklights are smaller.
In regard to core tools, such as cordless drills and drivers, yes, 18V-class brushless drills and drivers are getting smaller and smaller. But M12 tools maintain a cost benefit, at least in most cases.
During holiday season promos, and sometimes in between, you can buy an M12 compact drill and impact driver combo kit for $99, sometimes less and other times with an additional battery. M18 drill and impact driver kits start at maybe $149 (once or twice a year), and it’s at $189-$199 where you can get a compact brushless combo kit, and that’s double the price.
It seems that all brands’ 12V-class cordless power tools are usually developed as compact and lightweight solutions that are also more budget-friendly than 18V-class equivalents. But M12 is different. Their vocalization of how M12 tools increase productivity by speeding up manual processes is fairly new and recent. However, it seems this has been their internal philosophy (or close to it) for quite some time.
Yes, M18 and 18V-class developments could influence the direction of future M12 developments. But, Milwaukee M12 is its own cordless power tool ecosystem, and as such, I would think that M12 tools and developments are not going to be very affected from 18V-class industry trends or size reductions. Things might be different if M12 were a smaller platform with just a handful of offerings.
I am sure that Milwaukee’s “big picture” includes M12 having a long future full of steady new tool releases and developments.
There is one uncertainty, however: How will the M12 battery pack geometry change if 18650 Li-ion cells skyrocket in price, making 21700 a better de facto standard? I’m sure they have a plan – or plans – for that. But for now, although more brands are offering 18V-class 21700-equipped cordless power tool battery packs and even designing higher powered tools around them, we haven’t seen any brands migrating away from 18650-equipped batteries, at least not yet.
John
“In my opinion, nothing will happen to Milwaukee’s M12 lineup.”
Sums it up just fine.
Stuart
Yes, but I always got in trouble for not showing my work. It’s also always better to show than to tell.
Chris
Haha same!
Pointedspider
I have both platforms. I have more M12 than M18. M12 is concentrating on replacing manual hand tools. And I thank them for it!
Ryan
In reality. If 18 volts are getting smaller, so too will the 12v. I wouldn’t be surprised with new battery technology that the 18 volts of today can fit inside the 12v tools of tomorrow. Imagine If all the power of a high torque impact wrench could fit inside a future m12 stubby. That’s my hope anyway. I do love the torpedo style of the M12’s and Bosch’s and even Rigid’s. Any tight work and you’ll instantly know why that design was chosen. It may not be more comfortable but definitely more practical
Mike
I have several M12’s, and a heated jacket. The M12’s work well for me when I’m not doing anything too heavy.
Also using alternative power sources for the jacket, the M12 adaptor/battery rig isn’t very ergonomic, and doesn’t provide a very long run time.
Eric
I use 3 options for my M12 heated gear. For day to day stuff where it won’t be on that long then I just use an M12 3.0cp battery. For longer days where it could be on for a long time I have an M18 adapter and use the M18 3.0cp batteries. I also have a 5.5mm power cable extension for times that I’m sitting in one place so I can have whatever battery I want sitting next to me and not in the jacket. I’ve put a M12 6.0xc in the hoodie and it works ok, I don’t like it at all in the axis jacket, and either way I find the M18 adapter and pack to be more comfortable since the shape isn’t so awkward.
Bill
Milwaukee tools are the biggest waste of plastic and metal. Had 2 4 batteries fail, 1 grinder burn out 1 chuck drill break only not to mended correctly the grinder came back in pieces from the repair shop and garbage customer support. What a waste of every bodies time this form is.
red92s
One really popular application that didn’t make your list, where the M12 solution is excellent and there isn’t a M18 counterpart: ratchets. I think the closest thing in the M18 lineup is the right angle impact driver (?). The weight and form factor of the M12 battery really shines in that application.
Stuart
Exactly!
18V-class tools can get smaller and smaller, but they can never reach the form factor or size of the M12 and M12 Fuel ratchets.
Milwaukee has more cordless ratchets than some brands have brushless 12V-class tools. M12 Fuel in each size, extended-length ratchets in each size, and they also still have the original brushed motor models. Just something to think about.
Eric
Don’t forget the torque wrench.
Christian McConner
There is an m18 ratchet, the 2668, and 2558 before it.
MarylandUSA
The 12V battery-powered inflators (Milwaukee, Makita CXT, and Skil) are small, simple affairs. The 18 or 20V inflators (Ryobi, Craftsman V20, Bauer, Skil) run larger and come with an additional hose, an AC cable, and/or a 12V DC cable. A 12V battery-powered inflator is ideal for keeping in your car. I have my two M12 inflators to my daughter and son-in-law. I replaced them with a a Skil 12V. The Skil is basically an M12 that’s 10 percent smaller, 20 percent lighter, 25 percent cuter, and 25 percent cheaper after you add a quick-release chuck to the M12.
fred
At one time battery-cordless tools catered to a niche market – but slowly replaced electric corded tools – which have now become the niche. While I don’t see 10.8/12V class tools replacing 18/20V class tools as the mainstream market – their niche seems to be robust enough to support continued development. Bigger is not always better – and I’m reminded that our installers favored M12 and 10.8V Bosch tools – because both power and size better aligned with their needs.
The tool (M12 right angle die grinder) pictured while wimpy and short-run-time compared to a quality pneumatic – lets you lose the hose and fit into relatively tight spaces. Milwaukee’s reported upcoming introduction of a complementary straight M12 die grinder (2486-20) seems to bear out the market appeal.
Robert Ziemba
I’m an HVAC installer, and I’m doing a lot of high density residential tower work. One building had 176 apartments each with its own heat pump and rooftop condenser. That’s a lot of copper lineset to run. The m12 copper tube cutter is awesome, and is great at cutting kinked tubing inside tight walls.
Rami
Even though 18v tools are getting smaller and lighter, their batteries are not. 18v batteries are getting bigger and bigger, and even compact ones are still a lot bigger 10,8v batteries. I work as a tool retailer, and I always wonder why customers want small 18v tools (like the Makita sub-compact drill) and then they want to stick a 5ah battery on it, losing the whole point of a small tool.
Toolfreak
Maybe they have small hands?
TomB
Grip doesn’t tend to be any smaller on 12v since the batteries ride inside.
Rhyd
I bought a brushless compact drill and impact driver kit so it can fit in smaller spots. Stuck with 18V to maintain the power of my previous drill and 4ah so it doesn’t run out twice during a day’s use.
A bonus is that the total weight is the same as the old drill, but is less likely to fall over when I put it down as its no longer top heavy
Tool Junkie
The M12 Surge reportedly has the same power as the M18 version, in a smaller form factor. I actually prefer the M18 line, as I have small hands and find that the handle is smaller in diameter on the M18s than on the M12s.
As far as the battery cost, do the M12s only use the 18650’s?
Is it possible for Milwaukee to fit a 21700 into the handle of an M12?
Toes
You have to consider the work. I install closets and garage cabinets for a living. The M12 is perfect for closets and the M18 for garages. I haulled the M18 a round for 6 months doing closets. Purchased the M12, game changer. At the end of the day your arms are not tired. Both platforms have there place.
Lou kaye
If you work over head lighter tools easier on arms than large heavy batteries. If holding tools level as in drywall installation it a toss up on weight of batteries. If tool as mitre saw on stand larger will do it all depends on work you are doing as well if it’s your life work or hobby. But Milwaukee does fit a niche.
MarylandUSA
“Is it possible for Milwaukee to fit a 21700 into the handle of an M12?”
No. We might still see M12 batteries that use 21700 cells, if not from Milwaukee then from a third party. But all three or all six cells would have to reside outside of the handle. Aside from electronics, the battery “handle” part would be empty.
Blocky
Unless they pulled a hitachi (One battery in handle, two outside).
Doresoom
The M12 Surge has the same max torque as the M18 version, but the M18 version still has more power. It’s hard to tell much of a difference when driving 3″ screws, but if you try moving up to lag bolts, the speed difference is very apparent.
Matt
Not 3 of them as in a traditional m12 battery but 1 will fit in the grip, and then more can be added perpendicular to the grip as in the 3, 4 and 6ah xc batteries.
Check out TTC’s video where they compare a homemade m12 battery with 3x 21700’s to a traditional xc 6.0 with 6x 18650’s. Spoiler alert: The homemade battery wins!
eddie sky
I think the 18V, and larger Volt range batteries are getting too big (physically). I get having something large for industrial-size tools like breakers, cement saws, outdoor tools is acceptable. But I want something that can get into small spaces.
Also, I am ok with multiple batteries for a work day…one charging while using other. I’m used to it.
I mean, I thought having smaller, powerful batteries was the whole idea!
rmkilc
Actually, my question is just the opposite. With M12 tools getting so good, whats going to happen to the M18 line-up? Now I realize there is always a place for M18 for certain tools or for the professional trades, but I see quite a lot of the M12 versions of tools out on the jobsites like the band saw and hackzall. For homegamers, it seems the M12 versions of tools nowadays are all you need like the torque wrenches, drills, impact drivers, etc.
Stuart
Let’s say you have an M12 battery and an M18 battery with the same capacity, such as 2.0Ah or 4.0Ah, both built with 18650 cells. The M18 battery has 67% more battery power.
M12 has 3 cells for the compact battery, or 6 cells for XC.
M18 has 5 cells for the compact battery, or 10 cells for XC.
M18/18V/20V Max is still going to be the “for getting lots of work done” choice.
M12 is the lighter, smaller, less expensive, and ergonomic choice such as for working overhead or one-handed.
Tom D
I think another thing is that the M12 battery pack is “vertical” if you will – fitting inside the handle on many of the tools. For someone with large hands this makes them significantly less bulky – other 12V tools are hard to tell from the 18/20v because they have a similar “horizontal” pack.
If I were a tradesman I might have a different opinion – but I always reach for the M12 if I have both.
Jacob
I think the tools that are duplicated in both lineups will see similar trends. As 18V tools get more powerful in less volume, so will the 12V. As for the tools that aren’t duplicated, nothing will happen unless competition between platforms or brands drives it. Milwaukee won’t make a smaller version of a tool unless it makes business sense to offer such a product. Everyone wants a smaller drill and everyone makes drills. Or impact guns. But the weirder stuff won’t change unless there’s competition or demand to make the change.
Diego
call me crazy but I think Milwaukee owns the 12v lineup. I know Dewalt continuously tries to enter the game, but if you look at there atomic line up it’s almost the same size as there 20v stuff. Also, Milwaukee 12v batteries are awesome in there form factor. Before Milwaukee I used the craftsman Nextec tools (which still work) and realized how ergonomic the tools were. The nextec lineup is why I switched to red: form, factor, and function cannot be beat. Although the price of some tools seem rather outrageous.
Corey Moore
I’ll call you crazy lol It’s a pretty popular opinion that the m12 battery form factor is terrible as ergonomics go. Ergonomics are subjective, for sure, but even Bosch with the same form factor is regularly pointed out as having a smaller profile and better grip than m12. As for DeWalt continually trying to enter the space, this new brushless stuff is really their first in almost a decade. Atomic and the 12v launched so close to each other, I wouldn’t call then separate attempts, and beyond that I’d say atomic was more in line with Makita subcompact. Small tools on the bigger battery platform (18), not trying to be small tools made clunky with stempacks and trying to be way more powerful than they need to be. I see subcompact 18v and 12v as plenty different domains. Overlap, for sure, but each more beneficial than the other in certain respects.
Tom D
I think a huge part is hand size – I’m a big guy so the M12 feel “right” – and the lower total weight is nice – but I could see my friend preferring the M18’s narrower handle.
Same reason I like the 3 cell 3AH over the 6 cell version.
Arthur Woolf
I love the m12 stuff I have 2 hoodie and a jacket keeps me toasty
Jason
As an electrician the m12 compact bandsaw is one of the best tools I have ever purchased and I have dozens of m12-m18 tools. I have had the saw since the day it came out and I have loved it for everything from threaded rod to copper service wires, it may not have the cutting capacity of an 18 v but for anything strut sized or smaller it cuts like a champ.
Derek
I’m a electrician, and I LOVE my M12 tools, before I had them I went the el cheapo route and used Ryobi. Until I finally had enough of those cheap tools with their POS batteries. Switched to the obviously more expensive M12 tools, and have never looked back.
Christopher Fisher
I am a carpenter…26 years,. Done everything from framing to finish work… I own both Makita Milwaukee and Ryobi tools… They all have their place… The only Milwaukee tools I own are the M12 version… The heated hoodie included… For the money and for the convenience…again… They all have their place…p it seems like for the money and the power the Milwaukee is the platform I wish I would have started out with… I own mostly Makita tools and they’re all 18 volt and some 18 volt * 2… Only because I use them on a daily basis… Again, they all have their place… None of which I can honestly say have disappointed me…zero complaints…. And just in case you’re wondering, for my heated hoodie and an impact driver, the biggest battery that I have for the M12 lineup is it 3.0… I would go as far to say that the biggest most power consuming took that I have is the Makita 36v chop saw… They are all beasts…j/s…
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Toolfreak
I’d agree that not much, if anything, is going to happen to the 12V lineups even when the 18V/20V stuff gets smaller – but only in the short term. But that’s because of money, and the tool companies make lots of it when they produce the same tools powered by the same batteries over decades or more, and only slightly increase the battery capacity as production and cost allows.
I think the question is more interesting if you think long term – what happens when battery tech progresses to the point an 18V battery pack is smaller than a modern Milwaukee/Bosch-style 12V? What about -really- long term, when an 120V pack is smaller than a 12V pack is today?
I would say there is going to be a change at some point, either with just the progression of battery tech, or even a shift from Li-ion to some other chemisty or even a completely different kind of battery. The NiCd-powered drills of the past have been eclipsed by the Li-ion tools of today, so I’d expect whatever the next generation of cordless tools is, they will be an even bigger improvement over Li-ion than Li-ion was over NiCd.
Jeremiah McKenna
I think the old saying says it best, “the right tool for the job.” So as described, the tools will continue to get better on all of the battery capacities. Heck, look at their new line of heavy duty tools, like the concrete saw and huge flood light etc.
All of these lines will continue to be here, in concert with one another to help is get the job done. I mean, I’m sure we all still have our 1/4 inch ratchet and socket sets, even though we also have 3/8 inch, 1/2 inch and even some of us have 1 inch socket sets. Heck, we all have adapters that will allow the sockets to be turned by either ratchet, yet for some reason we keep all of those pesky, overlapping socket and ratchet sets.
EUGENIO
I own a lot of DeWalt power tools, it’s my go-to power tool brand,. The only other power tool brand/platform that I own is M12, there is no competition/replacement for it.
Dave T
I’m in the exact same boat and I couldn’t agree more. I do have a Bosch Flexiclick which has proven to be incredibly useful for certain awkward and tight spaces. Now that there’s an M12 equivalent available I wouldn’t mind swapping it out in order to just have chargers for two battery platforms.
Just the variety of M12 tools available was enough to ensure I’d hand over some of my money to Milwaukee. The ratchets are fantastic but it’s also the niche tools I use just as a matter of convenience. Every brand makes a drill and driver that’s sufficient for 99% of my needs, I’m not using them 8 hours a day so the weight isn’t much of a concern for me. It’s the occasional use tools for which there’s a cordless option that keeps me coming back. Like the cordless soldering iron and rotary tool, I’m aware there’s better tools on the market in both cordless and corded, it’s just incredibly convenient to grab the tools for whatever quick job since they all use the same batteries. It’s a huge time savings for me to have a few of those occasional use tools all together in the same bag or toolbox.
Christopher
I’m an automotive tech and have been for the past 10 years. The 12 volt platform is what I use all day every day. Specifically the fuel models. With all the tight spots and awkward angles I have to try and work in everyday, I can’t imagine using 18 volt tools. Now I do use the 18 volt high torque 1/2” impact for tires and high power applications like that where a 12volt just doesn’t have the oomph. So both platforms have their place, but for most things, the 12volt platform is best. Impact drivers, ratchets, die grinder, can’t beat the 12 volt fuel line up.
Roger Becht
All “20volt” is a joke since it actually only 18 volt. Black&Decker is misleading customers. Any brand fully charged 18volt battery will read over 20 volts. But will be 18 volts when run down. You can’t get 20 volts in any multiple of cells.
Corey Moore
Same is true of 12v. It’s pretty common knowledge.
Eddie M
As a Carpenter I find myself going to my M12 tools more often then not. Due to their compact size and I rarely feel that they are under powered they usually get the job done unless I’m driving a ton of screws or drilling a lot of holes I get most jobs done with my 12 V tools. I do love my m18 tools though.
bob
Very disappointed in the new generation of M12 tools. The new thicker grip makes them extremely uncomfortable to use unless you are wearing heavy work gloves or have a massive hands.
JoeM
I wasn’t even aware there was a concern over M12. I thought it was doing just fine. I don’t see why anyone should worry. It sounds more like someone is seeing the crack smoking going on at SBD Marketing, and thinking their neglect of the 12 volt platforms they have will somehow “infect” Milwaukee. I’m barely even aware of an overlap in M12 tools that SHOULD be replaced with M18. And even so, WHICH M18??? Fuel, Red, Red Lithium? M12 is basically powered hand tools, as 12 Volt series should be.
I’m a DeWALT guy, and I will fully admit that this is where Milwaukee did things better. The only thing DeWALT has done at 12 Volts that was worth doing, was all the instruments. Wall Scanner, Thermometer, Inspection Camera, Etc. Oh, and the lights of course. But… There isn’t a single Drill/Driver/Saw or other 12 Volt Max tool that is not worth replacing with a 20 Volt edition. They’re practically identical these days, save for the power and torque advantages of the bigger platform.
But… That’s DeWALT’S problem. Not Milwaukee’s. It’s an overreaction to worry about M12, just because 12 Volt Max got thrown under a bus. I’m sure Makita and Metabo don’t worry about these things, nor does Bosch or Rigid. DeWALT and Milwaukee are in a class of their own, battling things out between Red and Yellow. They are very different kinds of fighters. One is more of a heavyweight Boxer, the other is more of an MMA fighter. No matter who they’re fighting, the moves they have are not going to affect eachother’s strengths or weaknesses. M12 is one of Milwaukee’s strengths. It’s going to be fine. Even if DeWALT farts and forgets it ever made a 12 Volt platform in the first place, Milwaukee’s M12 won’t be harmed by that.
Lou kaye
I have 12v right angle driver for getting into tight places don’t use it all the time but I have it. Have old Milwaukee 18v 2amphr batteries which works fine for me most of the work I do is over head and heavy batteries kills your arms for over head work. When I got into Milwaukee for me they were only company local all the other were out of town.I am in Chicago area and Milwaukee repair center is in Niles.But to replace systems to another when I have one tool system is waist of money if you don’t have to.
Andrew
If it’s cheaper to make a 12V tool, then it’s probably going to remain in production. They won’t cut them until they stop making the profit levels they want off of them.
Ezra
Interesting timing… At the start of the year I found a small pile of AEG 12V skins on clearance at Bunnings. To my dismay the guy told me they were dropping 12V from the orange shelf.
This is not nearly the same story as big brother Milwaukee, but I will stop waiting for them to borrow designs for soldering iron, die grinder and small torch 🙁